I'm planning on starting a new project, and am evaluating various web frameworks. There is one that I'm seriously considering, but I worry about its lasting power.
When choosing a web framework, what should I look for when deciding what to go with?
Here's what I have noticed with the framework I'm looking at:
Small community. There are only a few messages on the users list each day
No news on the "news" page since the previous release, over 6 months ago
No svn commits in the last 30 days
Good documentation, but wiki not updated since previous release
Most recent release still not in a maven repository
It is not the officially sanctioned Java EE framework, but I've seen several people mention it as a good solution in answers to various questions on Stack Overflow.
I'm not going to say which framework I'm looking at, because I don't want this to get into a framework war. I want to know what other aspects of the project I should look at in my evaluation of risk. This should apply to other areas besides just Java EE web, like ORM, etc.
I'll say that so-called "dead" projects are not that great a danger as long as the project itself is solid and you like it. The thing is that if the library or framework already does everything you can think you want, then it's not such a big deal. If you get a stable project up and running then you should be done thinking about the framework (done!) and focus only on your webapp. You shouldn't be required to update the framework itself with the latest release every month.
Personally, I think the most important point is that you find one that is intuitive to your project. What makes the most sense? MVC? Should each element in the URL be a separate object? How would interactivity (AJAX) work? It makes no sense to pick something just because it's an "industry standard" or because it's used by a lot of big-name sites. Maybe they chose it for needs entirely different from yours. Read the tutorials for each framework and be critical. If it doesn't gel with your way of thinking, or you have seen it done more elegantly, then move on. What you are considering here is the design and good design is tantamount for staying flexible and scalable. There's hundreds of web frameworks out there, old and new, in every language. You're bound to find half a dozen that works just the way you want to think in your project.
Points I consider mandatory:
Extensible through plug-ins: check if there's already plug-ins for various middleware tasks such as memcache, gzip, OpenID, AJAX goodness, etc.
Simplicity and modularity: the more complex, the steeper the learning curve and the less you can trust its stability; the more "locked" to specific technologies, the higher the chances that you'll end up with a chain around your ankle.
Database agnostic: can you use sqlite3 for development and then switch to your production DB by changing a single line of code or configuration?
Platform agnostic: can you run it on Apache, lighttpd, etc.? Could you port it to run in a cloud?
Template agnostic: can you switch out the template system? Let's say you hire dedicated designers and they really want to go with something else.
Documentation: I am not that strict if it's open-source, but there would need to be enough official documentation to enable me to fully understand how to write my own plug-ins, for example. Also look to see if there's source code of working sites using the same framework.
License and source code: do you have access to the source code and are you allowed to modify it? Consider if you can use it commercially! (Even if you have no current plans to do that currently.)
All in all: flexibility. If I am satisfied with all four points, I'm pretty much done. Notice how I didn't have anything about "deadness" in there? If the core design is good and there's easily installable plug-ins for doing every web-dev 3.0-beta buzzword thing you want to do, then I don't care if the last SVN commit was in 2006.
Here are the things I look for in a framework before I decide to use it for a production environment project:
Plenty of well laid out and written documentation. Bad documentation just means I'm wasting time trying to find how everything works. This is OK if I am playing around with some cool new micro framework or something else, but not when it's for a client.
A decently sized community so that you can ask questions, etc. A fun and active IRC channel is a big plus.
Constant iteration of the product. Are bugs being closed or opened on a daily/weekly basis? Probably a good sign.
I can go through the code of the framework and understand what's going on. Good framework code means that the projects longterm life has a better chance of success.
I enjoy working with it. If I play with it for a few hours and it's the worst time of my life, I sure as hell won't be using it for a client.
I can go on, but those are some primary ones off the top of my head.
Besides looking at the framework, you also need to consider a lot of things about yourself (and any other team members) when evaluating the risks:
If the framework is a new, immature, "bleeding-edge" framework, are you going to be willing and able to debug it and fix or work around whatever problems you encounter?
If there is a small community, you'll have to do a lot of this debugging and diagnosis yourself. Will you have time to do that and still meet whatever deadlines you may have?
Have you looked at the framework yourself to determine how good it is, or are you willing to rely on what others say about it? Why do you trust their judgment?
Why do you want to use this rather than the "officially sanctioned Java EE framework"? Is it a pragmatic reason, or just a desire to try something new?
If problems with the framework cause you to miss deadlines or deliver a poor product, how will you talk about it with your boss or customer?
All the signs you've cited could be bad news for your framework choice.
Another thing that I look for are books available at Amazon and such. If there's good documentation available, it means that authors believe it has traction and you'll be able to find users that know it.
The only saving grace I can think of is relative maturity. If the framework or open source component is mature, there's a chance that it does the job as written and doesn't require further extension.
There should still be a bug tracker with some evidence of activity, because no software is without bugs (except for mine). But it need not be a gusher of requests in that case.
Related
I've been on this issue for probably a good two months now and really haven't found a stable solution so I thought I'd just try to ask. I have an existing site already at http://keyjaycompound.com that runs off a CMS that I designed. While it was good at the time, I've now outgrown it and looking at it now, looks sloppy XD.
So at first I started redoing the CMS when I thought and read that there are so many CMS solutions available, why spin my wheels? It seemed more logical to get a third party solution that does the mondain tasks like article CRUD and user management where I'd primarily worry about the addons.
So I searched and tried many solutions that I thought would suite my PHP development needs. As my testing base, I needed to see how well my current site would transfer over and how much hassle would ensue. While CMS's like Drupal, E107, and others were great....on paper, neither seem to suite my need. They were either too bloated, lacking in documentation or community support, seemly comprised of large hassle for simple tasks, or just downright confusing >_<.
So now the road has put me at Frameworks now in which I'm currently trying to learn Code Igniter. Now my issue becomes security! One of the advantages of CMS systems like Drupal or Joomla is that they have (and constantly are) field tested for security holes. Something a lone modest experienced developer like myself would probably never find. However what some have told me is that the fact that the CMS would be designed by me does create somewhat of a layer of security considering it's not common to the public as much as Drupal or Wordpress.
So with that here are my questions. In consideration of time and practicality:
how do pro's actually do something like this; select a content management system for their project?
Do they start with frameworks and build out, adjusting to security problems along the way?
Do they use a particular CMS solution so they dont worry as much about common security holes?
Maybe I should start with a framework like Codeigniter and growing with it as my security and user management needs change?
Thanks guys. I'd really like to finally stick with a solution to learn so I can finally get back to developing.
This might be too old to answer, but I'm shocked nobody has bothered to answer the question! I'm in the same situation and saw this.
I started out with a CMS, but after a security attack that wiped a project site clean (and the CMS forum was completely clueless) I picked up Codeigniter. Some projects later and recreating my own CMS (twice), I settled with wordpress for small-medium projects (from personal websites to online news/magazine types). As you put it, I've outgrown my own CMS for these type of projects.
Answers (in the order you asked them):
1) It depends mostly on what it is you are doing. If its something that can be deployed with open software (with a little patience learning), you could be better off with that while making sure they're updated all the time. But if you're doing something way different from all these I'm afraid you're pretty much stuck with a custom solution, which you could accelerate with frameworks.
2,3,4) With frameworks (for starters) sticking to the security guidelines of the framework in question helps a lot, while proofing the usual suspects (form validation, session hijacking, injection, etc) . I ran my first CMS through a certified hacker and he said it was rock solid (despite how paranoid I was about security while developing). Stick to the blog of the framework for security updates (they do happen)
For CI though, a major item you have to consider thoroughly would be the user management. CI AFAIK didn't come with one at the time and picking one with security in mind made me realize how important it was.
What seems to be looking like a good idea is finding a CMS working within Codeigniter that I can extend with ease. I don't know yet if this is the same as a standalone CMS that was built on codeigniter, but tackling security problems for me would amount to running tests while being as alert as I am as I go
Sorry for the long talk. Hope this helps
We are a team working on legacy code which is pretty old and written in languages of initial programming days. As the team members are trained in latest technology and are now put to work on legacy code, they are not happy. How to motivate them to work in legacy code also?
Send your team to meet users and watch them use software. They should find out what are most critical problems users have with that software.
Getting to know users makes work more real - your team will know that adding new functionality or eliminating some bugs will help some real person. That should motivate programmers to get boring job done.
Only cash can not make the developers happy. You should provide them good environment so that they can pay attention to their work.
Another thing is no technology is bad OR legacy OR older. Thing is if your company needs to maintain it, then you must keep it going. But keep all standards for designing, coding, testing, code review, interactive sessions etc..
Also you can motivate them to convert your legacy code to some new platform for better performance and maintainability. Every company does that even once i think, because they want to compete with other market products.
Also provide them some cool sessions for other technologies which are used in your company but they don't know or use. Let them be deeply in the things, give them proper time and support for problem solving. Main goal is to deliver on time with less rework and bugs.
Provide some rewards towards their work and keep them happy about their work.
thanks.
i really like "Send your team to meet users and watch them using software"
If i have to motivate my team, I will really ask my developer to visit the use and find out how much user is happy with the product.
I will really like to take challenge on how we can make it more better then what exist.
Do you have some scope for retiring the legacy code in the foreseeable future? If so, "we only need to keep this going until..." might sweeten the pill.
Are the team members experienced in the languages/environments which the legacy code is written in? If not, it might be simple reluctance to do something that they don't know how to operate. Possibly scheduling in some time for them to gain at least a passing familiarity might be in order; provided it's not too much of a paradigm shift from latest technology, it shouldn't be all that hard?
Are the team members only allowed to work on the legacy code team or can their time be split between different projects? I don't think anyone is going to be happy about spending a 40 hour week on FORTRAN debugging. But if you have to spend a few hours on the legacy code knowing that you can take breaks during the day to work on something you actually enjoy it's a little less painful.
And I'll reiterate what was said before about making sure the team members have time to learn and gain experience with the old technologies before throwing them in there. Try to make the training enjoyable too. Our legacy code training was set up as a competition to see who could come up with the fastest/shortest/most complete/etc solution to interesting problems rather than having to look exclusively at the code we were to be working on. Really, that could be applied to the team's plan even if you don't have time set aside for training. Add a little competition to the task at hand or allow a little bit of time for challenging and competitive side projects.
How are they getting rewarded for working on these legacy products? Do you know what motivates them? Some people may prefer timely recognition and praise while others may expect cash or understanding that this isn't necessarily what they signed up for when they initially took the job. I'd be tempted to suggest having 1:1 meetings to see what would they like that would make them happier. Is it more money? More flexibility in time off? Training in the legacy technologies? Affirmation that they are doing good work on these ancient systems, as the initial programming days makes me think of mainframes and other really old tools that one may wonder, "How much longer will this run really?"
Cash isn't the answer. Free food, soft drinks, whatever, that only goes so far at alleviating the drudgery of legacy code work. What about trying to change their perspective?
"Anyone can do good work with modern code that has a nice IDE with refactoring built in, a ton of resources just one Google search away, but we proud few, we band of brothers, we are good enough to do this with ancient procedural languages. We'll tame this awful mess of code and do it with one hand behind our backs and create processes and tools to make sure the next poor bastards won't have it so bad."
I would say the simplest way to attract the most positive emotion from developers to legacy coding would be to make the old new in some way.
Have a session or two to identify what it is that the legacy code does, and then get an idea of what it would take to do it anew on a new architecture. The "new architecture" part is key, because 9/10 times, it's the architecture that is dreaded (spaghetti code, pre-standard conventions, etc...).
If you can't get your re-write estimates approved, then at least work out a plan to get your refactoring of legacy code into the daily maintenance. At the very least your developers will feel as though they are working towards something, and something new at that, instead of just monkey-wrenching the old decay that no one wants to even remember.
Just my 2ยข.
You can for example try to do fancy things on the testing side. Try out mocking frameworks etc.
Try also emphasize that handling legacy code is a good experience if you want to become a solid programmer, since every technology becomes eventually legacy.
Extra cash? :) Don't know anything else...
Even if it's new technologies legacy code it's not always a pleasure to work on such code, so on "initial technologies"... i guess the only motivating thing is to discover how programming was these days...
The amount of Time required in spending motivating the team and learning the legacy code and fixing it half heartedly can easily be used to build the same stuff in new platform , given the amount of resources , IDEs , expertise , frameworks etc available for free, the Good news you have the system in place you just need to meet the same behavior in new platform unlike we have to build something new for some product whose behavior and user experience we dont know .
If you were going to start building web sites as a consulting business on the side -- keeping your day job -- and you also had a toddler and a wife, what frameworks/tools would you pick to save you typing?
Any language.
I'm looking for a productivity superstar stack that won't tie my hands too much when I have to update the site 6 months later, or "evolve" the data model once in production.
It needs to allow me to say "yes" to the client: community features, CMS, security, moderation, AJAX, ...
I would suggest Django. Super simple to get something up and running really quick. You are using Python which has a large library to go with it. For me Ruby on Rails would be a close second.
I'd probably look at DotNetNuke. Its easy to set up (a lot of hosts will do it for you) and easy to use and put together a custom site that business's will be able to maintain in the future.
Its fairly easy to create custom modules that are specific to a business and hundreds of modules for sale (or free) that can be integrated into DNN for special uses.
Take a look at Microsoft's Sharepoint server if you'd like a pre-made framework with many options for plugging in your own code. Sharepoint is kind of a world unto itself but it is a very powerful environment.
Update: I'm surprised to have been voted down on this one. Keep in mind that the questioner specifically requested frameworks that included a CMS. Sharepoint meets this criteria - unlike straight .NET or other web development frameworks.
If you are going to vote the entry down, I think you owe it to the person who asked the question to explain why you don't think he should not even explore it as an option. You could be right - collective wisdom is what voting on SO is all about. But without an explanation, we don't know why you think you are right.
My answers are going to revolve around the .NET stack.
Use Master pages and CSS templates. This makes it so much easier to pop in a new look and feel for your customer.
For sure I'd include the Dynamic Data framework in the .NET world.
Hosting might become an issue for your customer. Questions around managing email addresses, procedures on how to quickly update the website to include the new contact phone number (different for each customer, I'd assume) Consider getting a reseller account on your favorite webhost, and dole out webhosting accounts as appropriate. There are lots of issues around this point. It may turn out to be a nice source of recurring revenue.
Build yourself a few patterns including a database wrapper which would handle all your data calls (i.e. a dll which wraps all your data calls, sets up your ADO.NET objects, runs your sproc calls, and picks up the connstring from app.config or something similar.)
This goes a long way to maintainability as well.
I would recomend going with anything MVC in a language you can undertand! Theres a couple of CMS's in python, php and ruby using that design and well... that allows you to be ready for combat for Ajax and expanding anything very fast.
This is definitely not a question that can be answered.
I prefer asp.net webforms because I think it allows for extremely rapid web app development, but I am sure you will receive recommendations for:
asp.net mvc
Ruby on Rails
PHP and some framework
Python and some framework such as Django
I believe PHP has the most pre-built apps that you can use, though asp.net also has the things you are looking for.
All of these platforms and frameworks can do what you want.
Choose between Rails and Django. They both have different strengths. I like Rails better in general, but Django's admin interface can save you a lot of time when you need it.
There's another factor to take into consideration here: what are you the most familiar with? I believe that some studies have found upwards of a 30% loss of productivity when trying to learn a new language/framework.
Sometimes, there's nothing wrong with just sticking to what you know. But if you're interested in what languages/frameworks to learn, I'll refer you to the other posts because the above was the only thing I really have to add.
I recommend looking into Grails. It uses Groovy which is similiar to Java (so if you know this already you're good to go). Groovy runs on the JVM so you can still use all the great libraries already available for Java. Yet, since it's a dynamic language with a lot of the similar bells and whistles like Ruby you can use closures and that kind of neat stuff when you need/want to. And you're not slowed down by Java's traditonal slow compile-deploy-test development cycle.
Grails is already setup with Hibernate and Spring. You can create CRUD application in practically no-time (pretty much like Rails applications), and at the same time drill down and be able to control every little details since it's built on such proven and well-supported technologies. In addition there's literally hundreds of plugins available that helps you easily set up things like mailing lists, security, AJAX components and so on.
Otherwise, if you want to set up a community site and don't want to code a single line you could always check out ning.com.
I'm at a point in my freelance career where I've developed several web applications for small to medium sized businesses that support things such as project management, booking/reservations, and email management.
I like the work but find that eventually my applications get to a point where the overhear for maintenance is very high. I look back at code I wrote 6 months ago and find I have to spend a while just relearning how I originally coded it before I can make a fix or feature additions. I do try to practice using frameworks (I've used Zend Framework before, and am considering Django for my next project)
What techniques or strategies do you use to plan out an application that is capable of handling a lot of users without breaking and still keeping the code clean enough to maintain easily?
If anyone has any books or articles they could recommend, that would be greatly appreciated as well.
Although there are certainly good articles on that topic, none of them is a substitute of real-world experience.
Maintainability is nothing you can plan straight ahead, except on very small projects. It is something you need to take care of during the whole project. In fact, creating loads of classes and infrastructure code in advance can produce code which is even harder to understand than naive spaghetti code.
So my advise is to clean up your existing projects, by continuously refactoring them. Look at the parts which were a pain to change, and strive for simpler solutions that are easier to understand and to adjust. If the code is even too bad for that, consider rewriting it from scratch.
Don't start new projects and expect them to succeed, just because your read some more articles or used a new framework. Instead, identify the failures of your existing projects and fix their specific problems. Whenever you need to change your code, ask yourself how to restructure it to support similar changes in the future. This is what you need to do anyway, because there will be similar changes in the future.
By doing those refactorings you'll stumble across various specific questions you can ask and read articles about. That way you'll learn more than by just asking general questions and reading general articles about maintenance and frameworks.
Start cleaning up your code today. Don't defer it to your future projects.
(The same is true for documentation. Everyone's first docs were very bad. After several months they turn out to be too verbose and filled with unimportant stuff. So complement the documentation with solutions to the problems you really had, because chances are good that next year you'll be confronted with a similar problem. Those experiences will improve your writing style more than any "how to write good" style guide.)
I'd honestly recommend looking at Martin Fowlers Patterns of Enterprise Application Architecture. It discusses a lot of ways to make your application more organized and maintainable. In addition, I would recommend using unit testing to give you better comprehension of your code. Kent Beck's book on Test Driven Development is a great resource for learning how to address change to your code through unit tests.
To improve the maintainability you could:
If you are the sole developer then adopt a coding style and stick to it. That will give you confidence later when navigating through your own code about things you could have possibly done and the things that you absolutely wouldn't. Being confident where to look and what to look for and what not to look for will save you a lot of time.
Always take time to bring documentation up to date. Include the task into development plan; include that time into the plan as part any of change or new feature.
Keep documentation balanced: some high level diagrams, meaningful comments. Best comments tell that cannot be read from the code itself. Like business reasons or "whys" behind certain chunks of code.
Include into the plan the effort to keep code structure, folder names, namespaces, object, variable and routine names up to date and reflective of what they actually do. This will go a long way in improving maintainability. Always call a spade "spade". Avoid large chunks of code, structure it by means available within your language of choice, give chunks meaningful names.
Low coupling and high coherency. Make sure you up to date with techniques of achieving these: design by contract, dependency injection, aspects, design patterns etc.
From task management point of view you should estimate more time and charge higher rate for non-continuous pieces of work. Do not hesitate to make customer aware that you need extra time to do small non-continuous changes spread over time as opposed to bigger continuous projects and ongoing maintenance since the administration and analysis overhead is greater (you need to manage and analyse each change including impact on the existing system separately). One benefit your customer is going to get is greater life expectancy of the system. The other is accurate documentation that will preserve their option to seek someone else's help should they decide to do so. Both protect customer investment and are strong selling points.
Use source control if you don't do that already
Keep a detailed log of everything done for the customer plus any important communication (a simple computer or paper based CMS). Refresh your memory before each assignment.
Keep a log of issues left open, ideas, suggestions per customer; again refresh your memory before beginning an assignment.
Plan ahead how the post-implementation support is going to be conducted, discuss with the customer. Make your systems are easy to maintain. Plan for parameterisation, monitoring tools, in-build sanity checks. Sell post-implementation support to customer as part of the initial contract.
Expand by hiring, even if you need someone just to provide that post-implementation support, do the admin bits.
Recommended reading:
"Code Complete" by Steve Mcconnell
Anything on design patterns are included into the list of recommended reading.
The most important advice I can give having helped grow an old web application into an extremely high available, high demand web application is to encapsulate everything. - in particular
Use good MVC principles and frameworks to separate your view layer from your business logic and data model.
Use a robust persistance layer to not couple your business logic to your data model
Plan for statelessness and asynchronous behaviour.
Here is an excellent article on how eBay tackles these problems
http://www.infoq.com/articles/ebay-scalability-best-practices
Use a framework / MVC system. The more organised and centralized your code is the better.
Try using Memcache. PHP has a built in extension for it, it takes about ten minutes to set up and another twenty to put in your application. You can cache whatever you want to it - I cache all my database records in it - for every application. It does wanders.
I would recommend using a source control system such as Subversion if you aren't already.
You should consider maybe using SharePoint. It's an environment that is already designed to do all you have mentioned, and has many other features you maybe haven't thought about (but maybe you will need in the future :-) )
Here's some information from the official site.
There are 2 different SharePoint environments you can use: Windows Sharepoint Services (WSS) or Microsoft Office Sharepoint Server (MOSS). WSS is free and ships with Windows Server 2003, while MOSS isn't free, but has much more features and covers almost all you enterprise's needs.
At what level of complexity is it mandatory to switch to an existing framework for web development?
What measurement of complexity is practical for web development? Code length? Feature list? Database Size?
If you work on several different sites then by using a common framework across all of them you can spend time working on the code rather than trying to remember what is located where and why.
I'd always use a framework of some sort, even if it's your own, as the uniformity will help you structure your project. Unless it's a one page static HTML project.
There is no mandatory limit however.
I don't think there is a level of complexity that necessitates a framework. For me whenever I am writing a dynamic site I immediately consider a framework, and if it will save me time, I use it(it almost always does, and I almost always do).
Consider that the question may be faulty. Many of the most complex websites don't use any popular, preexisting, framework. Google has their own web server and their own custom way of doing things, as does Amazon, and probably lots of other sites.
If a framework makes your task easier, or provides added value, go for it. However, when you get that framework you are tied to a new dependancy. I'm starting to essentially recreate a Joel on Software post, so I will redirect you here for more on adding unneeded dependencies to your code:
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000007.html
All factors matter. You should measure how much time you can save using 3rd party framework and compare it to the risks of using other's code
Never "mandatory." Some problems are not well solved by any framework. It would be suggestible to switch to a framework when most of the code you are implementing has already be implemented by the framework in question in a way that suits your particular application. This saves you time, energy, and will most likely be more stable than the fresh code you would have written.
This is really two questions, you realize. :-) The answer to the first one is that it's never mandatory, but honestly, parsing HTML request parameters directly is pretty horrible right from the start. I don't want to do it even once, so I tend to go toward a framework relatively early on.
As far as what measurement is practical, well, what are you worried about? All of the descriptions that you list have value. Database size matters primarily for scaling, in my opinion (you can write a very simple app if you have a very simple schema, even if there are hundreds of thousands of rows in the database). The feature list will probably determine the number and complexity of UI pages, which will in turn help to dictate the code length.
There are frameworks that are there for getting moving very quickly with a simple blog, django or RoR all the way to enterprise full-stack applications Zope. Not to be tied to just the buzz world, you also have ASP.Net and J2EE, etc.
All frameworks and libraries are tools at your disposal. Determine which ones will make your life easier for your given project and use them.
I would say the reverse is true. At some point, your project gets so expansive, that you actually get slowed down by the shortcomings of the framework. For sufficiently large projects you may, in fact, be better off developing your own framework, to meet your own needs. I have seen many times where people were held back in the decisions they could make, or the work they could produce, because they were trying to do something that the framework didn't anticipate. And doing these things that the framework doesn't anticipate can be very troublesome. The nice thing about making your own framework, is that it can evolve with your project, to be a help to you system, instead of a hindrance.
So, to conclude, small projects should be use existing frameworks. Large projects should contain their own framework.