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Can you suggest some good MVC framework for perl -- one I am aware of is catalyst
The need is to be able to expose services on the perl infrastructure which can be called by Java/.Net applications seamlessly.
I'll tell you right now that Catalyst has by far the best reputation amongst Perl developers in terms of a rapid application development MVC framework.
In terms of "pure" MVC I'm not sure there are even that many "mature" or at least production-ready alternatives.
If Catalyst doesn't seem right to you, then you could build upon the lightweight framework CGI::Application to suit your needs or take a look at some of the lesser known MVC frameworks like PageKit and Maypole.
Since this old thread popped up, I will mention two exciting new additions to the Perl MVC world:
Dancer (CPAN) which is heavily influenced by Ruby's Sinatra, known for being very lightweight
Mojolicious (CPAN) which is written by the original developer of Catalyst to use what he learned there, it has no non-core dependencies, with very modern builtins (HTML5/CSS3/Websockets, JSON/XML parsers, its own UserAgent/templating engine)
(N.B. I have used Mojolicious more than Dancer, and as such if I missed some features of Dancer that I listed for Mojolicious then I apologize in advance)
Another alternative besides the ones already mentioned is Continuity; however, it is (as the name is meant to imply) continuation-based rather than MVC in the typical sense. Still, it’s worth mentioning because it is one of the better Perl web frameworks.
That said, I like Catalyst much better than any of the alternatives. And it’s still getting better all the time! The downside of that is that current preferred coding approaches continue to evolve at a fairly hurried clip – but for the last couple of versions, there has been strong emphasis on API compatibility, so the burden is now mostly mental rather than administrative. The upcoming port of the internals to Moose in particular is poised to provide some excellent benefits.
But the biggest argument in favour of Catalyst, IMO, is the Chained dispatch type. I have seen nothing like it in all of web-framework-dom, and it is a most excellent tool to keep your code as DRY as possible. This couples well with another great thing that Catalyst provides, namely uri_for – a method which takes a controller and a bunch of arguments and then constructs a URI that would dispatch to that place, which it returns. Together, these facilities mean that you can structure your URI space any way you deem right, yet at the same time can structure your controllers to avoid duplication of logic, and keep templates independent of the URI structure.
It’s just brilliant.
Seconding comments made by others: Catalyst (which more or less forked from Maypole) is by far and away the most complete and robust of them. There is a book by Jonathan Rockway that will certainly help you come to grips with it.
In addition to the 'Chained' dispatch type, the :Regex (and :LocalRegex) dispatch methods provide enormous flexibility. The latest app we've built here supports a lot of disparate-looking URLs through just a handful of subs using :LocalRegex.
I also particularly like the fact that you are not limited to a particular templating language or database. The mailing list (and the book) both have a preference for Template::Toolkit (as do I), and DBIx::Class (we continue to use Class::DBI), but you can use pretty much anything you like. Catalyst is marvelously agnostic that way.
Don't be put off by the fact Catalyst seems to require half of CPAN as dependencies. Once you get it up and running, it is a well-oiled machine. It has reached a level of maturity now that once you come to grips with it, you find it 'fades into the background'. You spend your time solving business needs, not fighting with the tools you use.
It does what it says on the tin. Catalyst++
Been playing with Squatting the last few days and I have to say it looks very promising and been fun to use.
Its a micro webframework (or web microframework ;-) and is heavily influenced by Camping which is written in Ruby.
NB. Squatting (& Camping) don't have model components baked into the framework. Here's the authors comments on models... "Models? The whole world is your model. ;-) I've always been ambivalent about defining policy here. Use whatever works for you"
There is also CGI::Application, which is more like the guts of a framework. It helps a person to write basic CGI's and glue bits on to it to make it as custom as they like. So you can have it use hardly any modules, or just about everyone under the sun.
Catalyst is the way to go. There is also Jifty, but (last time I looked), it had terrible documentation.
If you are already aware of Catalyst, then I recommend focusing on it. It is mature, well-documented, and has a very large user-base, community, and collection of plug-ins.
For your problem I would take a look into Jifty::Plugin::REST which allows access to models and actions using various formats.
Let me just say that Jifty doesn't have terrible documentation. However, most of included documentation is API documentation, but there is very low-noise mailing list which has useful tips and links to applications.
Wiki at http://jifty.org/ is another resource which has useful bits.
If your goal is to make video store (my favorite benchmark for 4GLs and CRUD frameworks) in afternoon, it's really worth a look!
Another options is Gantry when used in conjunction with the BigTop module it can reduce the time it takes to build simple CRUD sites.
There is also Clearpress which I can recommend as a useful database backed application. It needs fewer dependencies than Catalyst. We have written a few large applications with it, and I run a badminton ladder website using it.
I have built some applications with Kelp, it's easy to learn and very helpful.
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Closed 11 years ago.
What do you think about both?
I began reading a book about Catalyst, and found it pretty complex as compared to Dancer.
so now I'm giving Dancer a try, and it looks easier to learn and more "human friendly".
I think David's comment is very accurate and excellent. However, as someone who has done development in both but is not a developer on either perhaps I can be slightly more objective (and technical) in what the differences are.
Both frameworks provide a variation on the Web MVC paradigm.
Catalyst's main level of abstraction is the Controller. Catalyst expects you to break separate logic out into separate packages in some logical fashion (Login code goes here, Registration code goes there, Search functionality over here). This works incredibly well if you have a team of programmers since each of you can work on separate files and not step all over each other during merges. Catalyst provides a lot of tools for making the Controller logic extensible and flexible, I think the premier example of this is Chained actions which let you split up and build a complex flow for any given request. The downside is that it becomes very seductive to put your business logic into the Controllers and you end up with very fat logic in the Controllers where it (theoretically) belongs in the Model.
Dancer's main level of abstraction is the Route. My experience with Dancer is this leads to much smaller applications. Partly my experience here is tinged with the fact that I have dealt with several thousand line applications in Catalyst but I have yet to write a Dancer app that is longer than 200 lines (with a much smaller scope). I think however that this experience holds true. The push in Dancer is in keeping the Controller logic very thin because it doesn't have the same tools for managing complex behaviors there that Catalyst does.
Honestly I've enjoyed working in both of them. They both provide different opinions on what writing a web application is supposed to be. I would, given the time and inclination, recommend learning both ultimately.
This is a somewhat subjective question, but I'll try to give you an answer in an objective way. First things first, a disclaimer: I'm part of the Dancer development team, so my opinion should of course be considered somewhat biased :)
Catalyst is more widely used than Dancer, and so there's more community support behind it - if you were to look for contractors with experience working with either framework, say, you'd be more likely to find developers who've used Catalyst. So, if you're looking for commercial support, that would be a good reason to choose Catalyst.
Dancer is a younger project, and targeted more towards smaller projects, making getting up and running quick and easy, and trying to stay out of your way. That's not to say that Dancer isn't suitable for larger projects, however; the same habit of staying out of your way means you can organise your project in the way that suits you.
However, it has picked up a lot of support, and there's a growing community of helpful users and developers on IRC and the mailing list, and more and more useful plugins being released all the time. As with Catalyst, Dancer is designed so that you can pick and choose your preferred template engine, session storage backend etc, and it's easy to extend the framework by writing your own plugins if you need to.
For user testimonials to see what people say about Dancer, see the section at the bottom of the homepage on the new website: http://www.perldancer.org/
In the interests of showing other options, there's also Mojolicious, another modern Perl web framework which has been gaining in popularity lately.
Catalyst provides the same abstraction that Dancer does, Dancer's strength or rather Catalyst's weakness or rather Dancer's weakness is in how Catalyst forces the developer to adhere to Perl OO best practices and the MVC design pattern. After doing webapps for a while, this will all become apparent.
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I am doing my dissertation project on NP-Hard Problems: I am going to implement various algorithms for problems such as the partition, the subset sum, the knapsack, etc and then compare the results, the running time, etc. Also, I am going to see what happens with the algorithms when you modify the problem (how does the algorithm behave on the reduced problem, etc).
Now I picked this topic as my project because I am interested in theoretical computer science but I am also not sure if I want to go on as an academic/researcher or join a company/startup and this project has both a theoretical and a practical (actual coding) side.
My question is, which programming language should I use? Should I stick to what I feel more familiar with (Java and maybe Python), or should I go with the web languages (HTML, CSS, PHP, RoR, etc), having in mind that web development skills are on high demand nowadays?
EDIT: HTML and CSS would be obviously used just for the UI.
I want my project to be something that will impress in an interview (for either a job or a masters course) and I am not confident that "yet another project in Java" can do that. I understand that as long as the work on it is good and the result is satisfactory I should be ok but if, let's say, using Ruby can give me some points I am totally going with that. In the same time, I understand that deciding which language to use is part of the project so I am not willing to complicate things just to try and look cool.
Thanks in advance!
EDIT: In case this changes any of the answers, this is a undergrad. dissertation project, not a PhD one.
First of all this is a subjective question, not perfectly suitable for SO, but we forgive you :)
Contrary to popular opinion here (looking at the previous answers), if you're trying to solve NP-Hard problems, I would definitely not write the programs in C or C++. Mainly because dynamic programming methods tend to look like absolute dog poop when written in low-level languages. For example, here's someone's dynamic programming solution to the knapsack problem: http://www.joshuarobinson.net/docs/knapsack.html.
It's well-written and well-formed, but barely readable simply due to the sheer amount of malloc, memcpy, and free you need to do. Go with Java or Python, no question about it. You want people to actually read (and maybe even enjoy?) your dissertation, I would assume.
Don't write it in PHP or Ruby because those languages aren't particularly applicable to computer science theory. With that said, if you're applying for a web-dev job and you're trying to impress your future employees with a knapsack problem or dynamic programming NP-Hard solvers, it's like shooting a sparrow with a cannonball.
If your project's subject is impressive, no one will care what language it's in. Do it in the language you feel is appropriate for the task. Knowing how to make the appropriate language choice and defending that choice should be more impressive than "OMG I used RoR XSL ActionScript CSS!!!"
Also, how long do anticipate this project will take? If you go with a language that's flashy and trendy today, do you know it will still be cool and popular when this project wraps up? Just saying in another way, popularity is not the reason to choose the language for something like this.
if you can invest effort and time, then i recommend c/c++. it will be an impressive add-on skill.
My language of preference would be Python. You could use Django and, in my opinion, it would be very applicable to things that are being done in the industry (especially with startups). Plus, you can't beat Python when it comes to readability and speed of development.
I would have thought that Python would be doing too much clever stuff under the hood to really be able to measure relative performance accurately.
Wouldn't it be better to use a lower-level language like C? Employers would respect you more for that than using something because it's "cool".
The languages you know look fine to me. The old saw is that a CS PhD makes you unemployable anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it. :-)
The other ones you mentioned are mostly specialized web presentation languages. I'm not real sure how one even goes about implementing the knapsack problem using CSS...
Well, as much as this might look fine on the web page, it seems to me that Java would do a better job doing what you need.
PHP, HTML and CSS knowledge is good for job finding, but not applicable very much on the subject you picked.
Also, I noticed a bunch of answers, so I guess this is a question very much related to personal taste and opinion. Hm... You asked for it, anyways ;)
Since you're already familiar with Python, I'd recommend using it. You can use the popular scipy and numpy libraries for your project. You'll probably find something of use in them.
That would be the core, or backend part of your project. When this part is finished, you should think about polish and presentation. You don't want to have an impressive looking presentation with wrong calculations.
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Closed 9 years ago.
Can someone please explain me what a software framework is? Why do we need a framework? What does a framework do to make programming easier?
I'm very late to answer it. But, I would like to share one example, which I only thought of today. If I told you to cut a piece of paper with dimensions 5m by 5m, then surely you would do that. But suppose I ask you to cut 1000 pieces of paper of the same dimensions. In this case, you won't do the measuring 1000 times; obviously, you would make a frame of 5m by 5m, and then with the help of it you would be able to cut 1000 pieces of paper in less time. So, what you did was make a framework which would do a specific type of task. Instead of performing the same type of task again and again for the same type of applications, you create a framework having all those facilities together in one nice packet, hence providing the abstraction for your application and more importantly many applications.
Technically, you don't need a framework. If you're making a really really simple site (think of the web back in 1992), you can just do it all with hard-coded HTML and some CSS.
And if you want to make a modern webapp, you don't actually need to use a framework for that, either.
You can instead choose to write all of the logic you need yourself, every time.
You can write your own data-persistence/storage layer, or - if you're too busy - just write custom SQL for every single database access.
You can write your own authentication and session handling layers.
And your own template rending logic.
And your own exception-handling logic.
And your own security functions.
And your own unit test framework to make sure it all works fine.
And your own... [goes on for quite a long time]
Then again, if you do use a framework, you'll be able to benefit from the good, usually peer-reviewed and very well tested work of dozens if not hundreds of other developers, who may well be better than you. You'll get to build what you want rapidly, without having to spend time building or worrying too much about the infrastructure items listed above.
You can get more done in less time, and know that the framework code you're using or extending is very likely to be done better than you doing it all yourself.
And the cost of this? Investing some time learning the framework. But - as virtually every web dev out there will attest - it's definitely worth the time spent learning to get massive (really, massive) benefits from using whatever framework you choose.
The summary at Wikipedia (Software Framework) (first google hit btw) explains it quite well:
A software framework, in computer programming, is an abstraction in which common code providing generic functionality can be selectively overridden or specialized by user code providing specific functionality. Frameworks are a special case of software libraries in that they are reusable abstractions of code wrapped in a well-defined Application programming interface (API), yet they contain some key distinguishing features that separate them from normal libraries.
Software frameworks have these distinguishing features that separate them from libraries or normal user applications:
inversion of control - In a framework, unlike in libraries or normal user applications, the overall program's flow of control is not dictated by the caller, but by the framework.[1]
default behavior - A framework has a default behavior. This default behavior must actually be some useful behavior and not a series of no-ops.
extensibility - A framework can be extended by the user usually by selective overriding or specialized by user code providing specific functionality.
non-modifiable framework code - The framework code, in general, is not allowed to be modified. Users can extend the framework, but not modify its code.
You may "need" it because it may provide you with a great shortcut when developing applications, since it contains lots of already written and tested functionality. The reason is quite similar to the reason we use software libraries.
A lot of good answers already, but let me see if I can give you another viewpoint.
Simplifying things by quite a bit, you can view a framework as an application that is complete except for the actual functionality. You plug in the functionality and PRESTO! you have an application.
Consider, say, a GUI framework. The framework contains everything you need to make an application. Indeed you can often trivially make a minimal application with very few lines of source that does absolutely nothing -- but it does give you window management, sub-window management, menus, button bars, etc. That's the framework side of things. By adding your application functionality and "plugging it in" to the right places in the framework you turn this empty app that does nothing more than window management, etc. into a real, full-blown application.
There are similar types of frameworks for web apps, for server-side apps, etc. In each case the framework provides the bulk of the tedious, repetitive code (hopefully) while you provide the actual problem domain functionality. (This is the ideal. In reality, of course, the success of the framework is highly variable.)
I stress again that this is the simplified view of what a framework is. I'm not using scary terms like "Inversion of Control" and the like although most frameworks have such scary concepts built-in. Since you're a beginner, I thought I'd spare you the jargon and go with an easy simile.
I'm not sure there's a clear-cut definition of "framework". Sometimes a large set of libraries is called a framework, but I think the typical use of the word is closer to the definition aioobe brought.
This very nice article sums up the difference between just a set of libraries and a framework:
A framework can be defined as a set of libraries that say “Don’t call us, we’ll call you.”
How does a framework help you? Because instead of writing something from scratch, you basically just extend a given, working application. You get a lot of productivity this way - sometimes the resulting application can be far more elaborate than you could have done on your own in the same time frame - but you usually trade in a lot of flexibility.
A simple explanation is: A framework is a scaffold that you can you build applications around.
A framework generally provides some base functionality which you can use and extend to make more complex applications from, there are frameworks for all sorts of things. Microsofts MVC framework is a good example of this. It provides everything you need to get off the ground building website using the MVC pattern, it handles web requests, routes and the like. All you have to do is implement "Controllers" and provide "Views" which are two constructs defined by the MVC framework. The MVC framework then handles calling your controllers and rendering your views.
Perhaps not the best wording but I hope it helps
at the lowest level, a framework is an environment, where you are given a set of tools to work with
this tools come in the form of libraries, configuration files, etc.
this so-called "environment" provides you with the basic setup (error reportings, log files, language settings, etc)...which can be modified,extended and built upon.
People actually do not need frameworks, it's just a matter of wanting to save time, and others just a matter of personal preferences.
People will justify that with a framework, you don't have to code from scratch. But those are just people confusing libraries with frameworks.
I'm not being biased here, I am actually using a framework right now.
In General, A frame Work is real or Conceptual structure of intended to serve as a support or Guide for the building some thing that expands the structure into something useful...
A framework provides functionalities/solution to the particular problem area.
Definition from wiki:
A software framework, in computer
programming, is an abstraction in
which common code providing generic
functionality can be selectively
overridden or specialized by user code
providing specific functionality.
Frameworks are a special case of
software libraries in that they are
reusable abstractions of code wrapped
in a well-defined Application
programming interface (API), yet they
contain some key distinguishing
features that separate them from
normal libraries.
A framework helps us about using the "already created", a metaphore can be like,
think that earth material is the programming language,
and for example "a camera" is the program, and you decided to create a notebook. You don't need to recreate the camera everytime, you just use the earth framework (for example to a technology store) take the camera and integrate it to your notebook.
A framework has some functions that you may need. you maybe need some sort of arrays that have inbuilt sorting mechanisms. Or maybe you need a window where you want to place some controls, all that you can find in a framework. it's a kind of WORK that spans a FRAME around your own work.
EDIT:
OK I m about to dig what you guys were trying to tell me ;) you perhaps havent noticed the information between the lines "WORK that spans a FRAME around ..."
before this is getting fallen deeper n deeper. I try to give a floor to it hoping you're gracfully:
a good explanation to the question "Difference between a Library and a Framework" I found here
http://ifacethoughts.net/2007/06/04/difference-between-a-library-and-a-framework/
Beyond definitions, which are sometimes understandable only if you already understand, an example helped me.
I think I got a glimmer of understanding when loooking at sorting a list in .Net; an example of a framework providing a functionality that's tailored by user code providing specific functionality. Take List.Sort(IComparer). The sort algorithm, which resides in the .Net framework in the Sort method, needs to do a series of compares; does object A come before or after object B? But Sort itself has no clue how to do the compare; only the type being sorted knows that. You couldn't write a comparison sort algorithm that can be reused by many users and anticipate all the various types you'd be called upon to sort. You've got to leave that bit of work up to the user itself. So here, sort, aka the framework, calls back to a method in the user code, the type being sorted so it can do the compare. (Or a delegate can be used; same point.)
Did I get this right?
I realize that this may be subjective but I truly need an answer to this and I can't seem to find anything close enough to it in the rest of the Forum. I have read some folks say that the framework (any MVC framework) can obscure too many things while others say that it can promote good practices. I realize that frameworks are great for a certain level of programmer but what about individuals starting out? Should one just focus on the language or learn them together?
I think web development is way more than anyone grasps when they first start getting into it! Read this and know that it is all optional...but required to be really good at what you do.
I suggest that you spend time learning your language first. I would suggest learning C# simply because it is vastly more marketable and it is usually directly supported in most of MS products. By learning C# - programming in ASP.NET, console apps, servers, services, desktop apps, etc. will all be within your reach. You can program for most of the MS products as well as on many Linux type platforms.
Once you have this down then you can move to programming for the web as programming for the web has some intricacies that most other environments don't have. Concepts such as sessions, caching, state management, cross site scripting, styling, client side vs server side programming, browser support, how HTTP works, get vs post, how a form works, cookies, etc. are all at the top of the list of things to learn separately not to mention learning the ASP.NET base frameworks and namespaces.
Once you have the programming language down and then the concepts of web programming I suggest that you pause and learn database design. Don't worry about performance just yet...try to first learn good design. Performance will come next. A good start for you is Access (blasphemy I know). It is easy for a beginner to work with. And it translates into a more robust platform such as SQL Server easily. Learn at the very least some SQL...but I suggest that you learn as much as your stomach can handle. I heard someone say that SQL is like the assembly language of the database. The number one thing that slows an application to a halt is piss poor database design and poor queries. Once you have this knowledge - stuff it away in the back of your mind and take a look at a good ORM. NHybernate is probably best at the moment but is more complex that the basic learner needs. For that reason I currently suggest getting LINQ to SQL up and running as it is SUPER EASY to work with. Then look at Entity Framework (although I still think it sucks...and you should wait till EF 2.0...ERRRRR...now 4.0 released with .net 4.0). Then NHybernate.
Now is the time to start to understand the infrastructure that is required by web development. You may bump your head against this as you learn some of the web programming stuff. But you need to understand the basics of DNS, IIS, load balancers, sticky routing, round robin, clustering, fault tolerance, server hardware setup, web farms, cache farms (MemCached Win32, Velocity), SMTP, MSMQ, database mail queuing, etc. Many people may say you don't need this. That there will be some knowledgeable network admin to help you out here. However they generally know things that impact them...not you. The more you know here the more valuable you will be to the company that hires you.
Now you can get into the details of best practices and design patterns. Learn about the basics such as repository pattern, factory pattern, facade pattern, model view presenter pattern, model view controller pattern, observer pattern, and various other things. Follow Martin Fowler and others for suggestions here. Take a look at concepts such as inversion of control, dependency injection, SOLID principle, DRY, FIT, test driven design, and domain driven design, etc. Learn as much as you can here before moving to the next step.
NOW you can think about frameworks! Start by creating a basic application with ASP Classic (comes with IIS for free!). This will give you a flavor of a no frills web development environment. Take a look at ASP.NET web forms (briefly) to see how MS attempted to make things easier by hiding all the complex stuff (which you now know how to manage on your own from your readings of the above materials!!!). Now you no longer need ASP.NET Web Forms. Move immediately to ASP.NET MVC. The MVC framwork gives you all the power you need to create a good easily manageable web application. If you build something really big no framework for pure web development may be able to deal with what you need. However MVC is way more extensible for such UBER custom scenarios.
Now that you have made it through the journey to ASP.NET MVC you can take a look at things such as Microsofts Enterprise Application Blocks (such as they use at MySpace). Take a look at Elmah error logging (a must have). Look at how to build a custom SiteMapProvider for your MVC site. If you need to get into searching stuff understand Lucene.NET.
And if you made it this far...you are ready to figure out the rest on your own as it comes up! Have fun. There is a lot of room in this space for a person with some understanding of all of the above concepts.
You'll be using SOME sort of framework. The question is, what level do you want to learn at?
You'll probably not care to learn about asynchronous I/O and mutlithreaded vs. select/poll styles of web servers.
So then, your language of choice is going to provide a layer atop this, the languages preferred "web interface" API. For Java it's Servlets, the lowest level you'd typically code at for server side web applications.
You should find what this "lower level" layer is in your language and learn the API at least. You should know basic HTTP like status codes, cookies, redirects, POST vs GET, URL encoding, and possibly what some of the more important headers do.
You'll then come to appreciate what these higher level frameworks bring to the table, and be better able to evaluate what is the appropriate level of abstraction for your needs/project.
Web development requires a certain degree of organization, since it relies so much on separation of concerns. The browser, for example, is designed to display data and interact with the user. It is not designed to lookup data from a database, or perform analysis. Consequently, a web development framework can help provide services that are needed to make the browser experience a practical one.
The nice thing about employing a platform is that it will provide core components essential to the making of any web application that you won't (and shouldn't) have to think about, such as user membership, for example. Many of the design decisions and deep thinking about how to implement these services has already been done for you, freeing you to focus on what you actually want you application to do.
Of the available frameworks, I find that frameworks that implement the MVC (model-view-controller) pattern are very practical. They clearly organize different functions of web development, while giving you full control over the markup presented to the browser.
All that said, you will need some fundamental skills to fully realize web development, such as HTML, CSS, and a core programming language for the actual underlying program, whether you use a platform or not.
I don't think I agree with the Andrew. I don't think learning C is a pre requisite for web development. In fact, learning something like Javascript, Action-script or PHP is often easier due in large part to the vast numbers of sites and tutorials available, and are enough to expose you to the fundamentals of pretty much every programing language. Variable, Conditions, Loops and OOP. I just think learning C# introduces a lot of learning that isn't really relevant to web development such as pointers and memory management.
As for wether you should learn a framework first? Definitely not. Never ever. You need to be able to stand on your own two feet first and be comfortable with HTML/CSS, Server Side Scripting (PHP/ASP/Python/Ruby whatever) and love it or loathe it, but you're going to have to have a decent understanding of Flash and Action-script.
The order in which you learn these is entirely up to you. But my learning plan would go like this...
Start with HTML. It takes about half an hour to get the basics (it's made up of tags with attributes, end of lesson 1) and it's good to get it out of the way first.
Then start leaning CSS. You'll get the basics again, very quickly. But CSS is a minefield so expect to spend the rest of your life figuring it out.
Next up Action-script. Most people wouldn't agree with me, but bear with me. HTML and CSS aren't programming languages. Action-script is. And learning a programing language for the first time is difficult and tedious. The advantage Action-script has over most other languages is that the results are very visual. It's enjoyable to work with and you can sit back and take pride in your accomplishments at regular intervals. This isn't possible with server-side scripting languages or Javascript and there's a whole host of stuff you need to learn to get server side scripting up and running. You can't build space invaders in with PHP for example.
I've changed my thinking here. I would encourage beginners to ignore ActionScript and focus on Javascript. I still believe that being able to see stuff on screen quickly is a good motivator, but I would encourage people to look at canvas tag tutorials and frameworks. Javascript has come a long way since 2009, and is now the lingua franca of programming, so it's incredibly useful. My initial point about HTML and CSS not being programming languages still stands.
Then, you can start with your server side language. At the same time, you're going to have to figure out the database stuff. I recommend PHP and MySQL because it's free.
Again, I've changed my thinking here. I would encourage beginners to use Javascript on the backend (Node.js), and split their database learning between relational databases and noSql solutions such as Mongo.
Then.... learn your framework. Or better yet, roll your own. That's what I've been doing and it's supercharged my learning.
If you're getting into web development, You HAVE to know how those building blocks work. You don't have to be an expert in all the areas, but you should try to become an expert in at least one of them. If you start learning a framework before you get the fundamentals you'll be in a sticky middle ground where you don't understand why things don't work which will infuriate you, and anyone who has to work with you.
you should learn how to use framework because it would be helpfull for u in the future also it is easier to learn.
MVC will help you a lot .. trust me ... i was developing web project not using mvc and it is like mess ... (in the past there are no well know mvc and i never heard about it)
Short version: yes, and then some.
FWIW : This more generic answer may be of use to someone out there.
What: Frameworks take out tedium of using boiler-plate code again and again. They hide complexity and design issues under wizards and conventions. They also use special libraries, design patterns etc. in ways that are far from obvious to a beginner.
So using a framework is good for getting things done without knowing exactly how - like using an ATM without knowing the internals. You just add your code bits in certain places and things 'just work'.
HTML > CSS > Ruby > SQL > Rails/Javascript framework > Libraries would make for a good learning track. Rest you learn as you go along by being curious, hanging out on forums or as extended learning as need arises.
HOW: The problem starts the minute you step outside simple text-book examples (i.e. when you try to get it to do something even a bit different).
Decoding cryptic error messages when it seems like you've done everything right but things still don't work. Searching on error strings in forums may help out. Or just re-starting from scratch.
Reading up articles and books, videos, trial-and-error, hard-work, search-engines, stackoverflow/forums, local gurus, design articles, using libraries, source-code browsing are a good way to climb the learning curve gently and on a requirement basis.
Working-against-the-framework is the number one problem for beginners. Understanding what the framework expects is key to avoiding white-hair in this phase. Having enough insight to manually do what the framework automates may help reduce this second-guessing effort.
WHY: For more advanced debugging/design, it's good to know what the framework is doing under the hood esp. when things don't work as you planned. Initially you can take the help of local-gurus or forum gurus who've already done the hard work. Later as you go deeper you can take on more of that role. For example there's a "rebuilding rails" book which looks under the hood of Ruby on Rails.
Note: Some of the tips are oriented towards Ruby/Rails but you can easily substitute your favourite language/framework instead.
I have inherited a broad, ill-designed web portfolio at my job. Most pages are written in Perl as most of the data ingested, processed, and displayed on the site comes in the form of flat-files which then have to be meticulously regexed and databased in our MySQL and Oracle databases.
As the first IT-trained manager of this environment, I am taking it upon myself to scrub the websites and lay down some structure to the development process. One of the choices I have been given is to choose whether or not to continue in Perl. There is substantial in-house talent for Java and PHP is rather easy to learn. I have considered taking the reins off the developers and letting them choose whatever language they want to use for their pages but that sounds like it might be trouble if the guy who chose PHP gets hit by a bus and no one else can fix it.
As the years go by hiring Perl programmers becomes more and more difficult and the complexity of maintaining legacy Perl code from previous developers whose main focus may have been just getting a page up and running is becoming very resource-consuming. Another, previous (non-IT) manager was more focused in on quick turnaround and immediate gratification of pages rather than ensuring that it was done right the first time (he has since been promoted outside our branch).
The production server is solaris. MySQL has most of our data but new projects have begun using Oracle more and more (for GIS data). Web servers are universally Apache. We live in an intranet disconnected from the regular internet. Our development is conducted in an Agile, iterative manner.
Whatever language is chosen to push forward into, there are resources to have the existing development staff re-trained. No matter what, the data that comes into our environment will have to be regexed to death so perl isn't going away anytime soon. My question to the community is, what are the pros and cons of the following languages for the above-defined web dev environment: Perl, PHP, Java, Python, and --insert your favorite language here--. If you had it to do all over again, which language set-up would you have chosen?
Edits and Clarifications:
Let me clarify a bit on my original post. I'm not throwing everything away. I've been given the opportunity to adjust the course of the ship to what I believe is a better heading. Even if I chose a new language, the perl code will be around for some time to come.
Hypothetically speaking, if I chose Assembly as my new language (haha) I would have to get the old developers up to speed probably by sending them to some basic assembly classes. New pages/projects would be in the new language and the old pages/projects would have to play nice with the new pages/projects. Some might one day be rewritten into the new language, some may never be changed.
What will likely always be in Perl will be the parsing scripts we wrote years ago to sift through and database information from the flat files. But that's okay because they don't interface with the webpages, they interface with the database.
Thank you all for your input, it has been very very helpful thus far.
It seems that your problem is more legacy code and informal development methodology than the language per se. So if you already have Perl developers on staff, why not start modernizing your methods and your code base, instead of switching to a new language, and creating an heterogeneous code base.
Modern Perl offers a lot in terms of good practices and powerful tools: testing is emphasized, with the Test::* modules and WWW::Mechanize, data base interaction can be done through plain DBI, but also using ORM modules like the excellent DBIx::Class, OO with Moose is now on par with more modern languages, mod_perl gives you access to a lot of power within Apache. There are also quite a few MVC frameworks for Perl. One that's getting a lot of attention is Catalyst.
Invest in a few copies of Perl Best Practices, bring in a proper trainer for a few classes on modern development methods, and start changing the culture of your group.
And if you have trouble finding developers that are already proficient in Perl, you can always hire good PHP people and train them, that shouldn't be too difficult. At least their willingness to learn a new language would be a good sign of their flexibility and will to improve.
It is always tempting to blame the state of your code on the language its written in, but in your case I am not sure that is the case. Lots of big companies seem to have no problem managing huge code bases in Perl, the list is long but the main Web companies are all there, along with a number of financial institutions.
I would bring in someone who is very good at Perl, to at least look at the current design. They would be able to tell you how bad the Perl code really is, and what needs to be done to get it into good shape.
At that point I would start considering my options. If the Perl code is salvageable, well than great, hire someone proficient in Perl. Also train some of your existing staff to help on the existing code-base. If you don't have someone proficient in Perl in charge of the Perl code, your code-base may become even worse than it already is.
Only if it was in terrible shape, would I consider abandoning it for another language. What that language is, that is something your going to have to think about that yourself.
p.s. I'm a bit biased, I prefer Perl
If regex is important I would choose a language with good support.
If you would use java, you will not be able to just copy paste your regex code from the perl code because the slashes have to be escaped. So I would vote against java.
I'm not familiar with php enough to know its regex features, but given your choices I would go for python. You can create cleaner code in python.
Would ruby also be an option? It also has good perl like regex support and rails supports agile web development out of the box.
first off let me point out that MySQL's spatial extensions work with GIS.
Second, if you have a bunch of Perl programmers that will need tow ork on the new sites then your best bet is to choose something they won't have too much trouble understanding. The obvious "something" there is PHP. When I learnt PHP I'd done some Perl years ago and picked up PHP in no time at all.
Switching to something like Java or .Net (or even Ruby on Rails) would be a far more dramatic shift in design.
Plus with Apache servers you already have your environment set up and you can probably stage any development as a mix of Perl and PHP reasonably easily.
As to the last part of your question: what would you do it in if you could do it over again? To me that's a seprate and basically irrelevant question. The fact is you're not rewinding and starting over, you're just... starting over. So legacy support, transition, skills development and all those other issues are far more important than any hypothetical question of what you'd choose in a perfect world if all other things were equal.
Love it or hate it, PHP is popular and is going nowhere anytime soon. Finding skiled people to do it is not too difficult (well, the dificulty is filtering them out from the self-taught cowboy script jockeys who think they can code but can't) and it's not a far step from Web-based Perl.
If your developers are any good, they'll be able to handle anything thrown at them. Deciding what language to use is quite a tricky strategic position, but I recommend you think very carefully before introducing any MORE (i.e. don't).
Unless of course, there is something that you absolutely cannot do (or cannot do sanely) with what you've got.
I think choosing a single language is key and if your database is primarily MySQL, then PHP seems like the obvious choice. It naturally works with your database, it's open source and there is tons of documentation, source code, doesn't require compiling, etc.
People come and go through positions and any website will evolve over time. If you have the ability to set some guidelines and rules, I would choose something that is forgiving, common-place, and easy(er) to learn.
I'd also suggest writing it down so people in the future don't re-invent the wheel.