I'm struggling with a classic legacy project: manual URL parsing and composition, manual routing etc. Knowing a bit of Catalyst I long for at least some of the concepts, for example proper (a.k.a. transparent) URL routing and parameter parsing for example. Ideally, I'd just use Catalyst and be done with it, but given it's a legacy project, I guess I only have two options:
Somehow use parts of Catalyst in my project -- which I'm not sure is possible. Is it?
Use single modules implementing parts of Catalyst's framework -- what are you experiences, which modules can be recommended?
I have not tried this, but from what I have tried I don't think that it's really a viable option to take a legacy project and "Catalyze" it halfway. I don't think Catalyst is meant to be used in that way, and trying to do so will probably be far more effort than it is worth, especially since you'll be hitting edge cases all over the place that nobody else has any familiarity with (since they don't know about your legacy code).
It's hard enough just getting a legacy project to fit into MVC, without even considering which framework to use. So, IMHO, if you're going to do it, go for a full-assed solution:
If you can separate concerns in the legacy codebase, the effort from that point to getting the project fully under Catalyst is worth it.
If you can't separate concerns in the MVC sense, you aren't going to get any substantial benefit from using Catalyst or parts of it. Your efforts will be better spent on plain ole-fashioned refactoring.
Related
Has anyone implemented Orchard for a LOB application? If so, what was your experience? Would you recommend using it or another CMS or do you think it’s the wrong way to go?
To my experience, developing a custom LOB application around Orchard may be a good or bad idea. It all depends with what actually your are trying to achieve and most importantly what potential features/functionalities you want to leverage from the Orchard framework.
Personally speaking, I fell in love with the Orchard modularized architecture and simplicity of the backend design. I wanted to have all these features in my application and decided to write my application entirely on Orchard.
So, if you want to make same decisions I made, I should possibly warn you about the followings:
1 - You have got to understand the MVC internals pretty well since orchard has a huge amount of code written in this arena. If you are not that much of an expert in MVC, you will find yourself spending a lot of time figuring things out that you should.
2- Depending what type of application you want to develop, getting rid of some of the built-in modules may be necessary, even some of the core modules which may lead you into problems that are hard to fix.
3 - With this amount of customizations you make, any future release from Orchard will possibly break your code - and you may find yourself maintaining your own application framework and being unable to apply bug fixes and such. And mind you, Orchard is just a new framework, so expect a bunch of bug fixes, releases very soon.
Plus other possible ramifications, it is very important to weigh the pro and cons here before you make a final decision.
So, my advice is a follows:
If you think you can use Orchard without heavily customizing its internals, you will surely benefits a lot. On the other hand, if your project specifications are going to need you to make huge changes to the framework, then I wouldn't advice you to pursue this option.
In short, for a seriously big project - don't use Orchard.
Unfortunately, I am not aware of any other framework as well written as Orchard to recommend here.
Hope this helps!
I have finally decided to hop up on the train of MVC 2.
Now I have been doing a lot of reading lately and following is the architecture which I think will be good enough for most Business Web Applications.
Layered Architecture:-
Model (layer which communicates with Database). EF4
Repository (Layer which communicates with Model and includes all the queries)
Business Layer (Validations, Helper Functions, Calls to repository)
Controllers (Controls the flow of the application and is responsible for providing data to the view from the Business Layer.)
Views (UI)
Now I have decided to create a separate project for each layer (Just to respect the separation of concerns dilemma. Although I know it's not necessary but I think it makes the project look more professional :-)
I am using AutoMetaData t4 template for Validation. I also came across FluentValidation but cant find much on it. Which one should I go with?
Which View Engine to go for?
Razor View Engine Was Love at first sight. But it's still in beta and I think it won't be easy to find examples of it. Am I right?
Spark .. I can't find much on it either and don't want to get stuck somewhere in the middle crying for help when there is no one to listen...:-(
T4 templates auto generate views and I can customize them to generate the views the way I want? Will this be possible with razor and spark or do I have to create them manually?
Is there any way to Auto generate the repositories?
I would really appreciate it if I can see a project based on the architecture above.
Kindly to let me know if it's a good architecture to follow.
I have some confusion on the business layer like is it really necessary?
This is a very broad question. I decided to use Fluent NHibernate's autoconfig feature for a greenfield application, and was quite impressed. A lot of my colleagues use CakePHP, and it needed very little configuration to get it to generate a database schema compatible with the default conventions cake uses, which is great for us.
I highly suggest the book ASP.NET MVC2 in Action. This book does a good job at covering the ecosystem of libraries that are used in making a maintainable ASP.NET MVC application.
As for the choice of view engines, that can depend on your background. I personally prefer my view to look as much like the HTML as possible, so I would choose Spark. On the other hand if you are used to working with ASP.NET classic, the WebForms view engine may get you up and running fastest.
Kindly to let me know if its a good architecture to follow?
It's a fine start - the only thing I would suggest you add is a layer of abstraction between your Business Logic and Data Access (i.e: Dependency Inversion / Injection) - see this: An Introduction to Dependency Inversion.
i know its not necessary but i think it makes the project looks more professional :-)
Ha! Usually you'll find that a lot of "stuff" isn't necessary - right up until the moment when it is, at which point it's usually too late.
Re View Engines: I'm still a newbie to ASP.NET MVC myself and so aren't familiar with the view engines your talking about; if I were you I'd dream up some test scenarios and then try tackling them with each product so you can directly compare them. Often, you need to take things for a test drive to be more comfortable - although this might take time, but it's usually worth it.
Edit:
If i suggest this layer to my PM and give him the above two reasons then i don't think he will accept it
Firstly, PM's are not tech leads (usually); you have responsibility for the design of the solution - not the PM. This isn't uncommon, in my experience most of the time the PM isn't even aware they are encroaching on your turf that isn't theres. It's not that I'm a "political land grabber" but I just tend to think of "separation of concerns" and, well, I'm sure you understand.
As the designer / architect it's up to you to interpret requirements and (taking business priorities into account) come up with solution that provides the best 'platform' going forward.
(Regarding DI) My question is , is it really worth it?
If you put a gun to my head I would say yes, however the real world is a little more complex.
If you answer yes to any of these questions then its more likely using DI would be a good idea:
The system is non-trivial
The expected life of the system is more than (not sure what the right figure is here, there probably isn't one, so I'm going to put a stake in the ground at) 2 years.
The system and/or its requirements are fluid.
Splitting up the work (BL / DAL) into different teams would be advantageous to the project (perhaps you're part of a distributed team).
The system is intended for a market with a diverse technical landscape (e.g: not everyone will want to use MS SQL).
You want to perform quality testing (this would make it easier).
The system is large / complex, so splitting up functionality and putting it into other systems is a possibility.
You want to offer more than one way to store data (say a file based repository for free, and a database driven repository for a fee).
Business drivers / environment are volatile - what if they came to you and said "this is excellent but now we want to offer a cloud-based version, can you put it on Azure?"
Id also like to point out that whilst there's definitely a learning curve involved it's not that huge, and once you're up-to-speed you'll still be at least as fast as you are now; or at worst you;ll take a little longer but you'll be providing much more value (with relatively less effort).
In terms of how much effort is involved...
One-Off Tasks (beyond getting the team up to speed):
Writting a Provider Loader or picking DI Framework. Once you've done this it will be reusable in all your projects.
'New' Common Tasks (assuming you're following the approach taken in the article):
Defining interface (on paper) - this is something you'll be doing right now anyway, except that you might not realise it. Basically it's OO Design, but as it's going to be the formal interface between two or more packages you need to give it some thought (and yes you can still refactor it - but ideally the interface should be "stable" and not change a lot; if it does change it's better to 'add' than to 'remove or change' existing members).
Writting interface code. This is very fast (minutes not hours), as you're not writting any implementation; and when you go to implement you can use tools provided by your IDE to generate code-stubs based on the interface.
Things you do now that you'd do differently:
Instantiating a variable (in your BL classes) to hold the provider, probably via a factory. Writting this shouldn't take long (again, minutes not hours) and it's fairly simple code to copy, paste & refactor where required.
Writing the DAL code: should be the same as before.
Sometimes it is way more easy to learn patterns from code : Sharp Architecture is a concrete implementation of good practices in MVC, using DDD.
My company needs to rewrite a large monolithic program, and I would want it written using a plugin type architecture. Currently the best solution appears to be MEF, but as it is a fairly 'new' thing I am warey of betting the future of my company (and my reputation) on it.
Does anyone have a feeling on how mature a solution MEF is ?
Thanks
Visual Studio's entire extension system is now built on MEF.
That is to say that Microsoft is Dog-fooding it (like they are doing with WPF).
Given that the framework developers themselves will be working with it, you can feel pretty confident that it is here to stay. However, as with any first release, you are almost guaranteed to have some growing pains when the next release comes around.
Personally, I would go for it. It is certainly better than the tightly-coupled-reflection-based alternative.
I don't think it is necessary to "bet on MEF". Your code should have very little dependencies on MEF.
You can use the technique of dependency injection to break up your monolithic application into components which have only a single responsibility, and which limit their knowledge of other components to abstractions. See this blog post by Nicholas Blumhardt for a nice overview of the type of relations that can exist between components.
Wiring the components together into an application can then be done with any dependency injection framework, or even manually. The component logic shouldn't need to be aware of the container - there might not even be a container.
In the case of MEF, you do need to add import/export attributes to your classes. However, you can still ignore those attributes and reuse those components without MEF, e.g. by using another DI framework like AutoFac.
It's a relatively new technology, so I'm not sure if it's exactly mature. I'm sure it will change quite a bit over the next several years, perhaps merging with other frameworks to better support IoC. That said, MS has a pretty good history of preserving backwards compatibility, so now that MEF is actually part of the Framework, I would consider the public interfaces stable.
That said, MEF might not actually be the right solution for your project. It depends on your extensibility needs and how large is 'large'. If you want to support true extensibility, including the possibility for third-party plugins, it has an enormous impact on your design responsibilities. It's much harder to make changes to the infrastructure as you now need to maintain very stable public interfaces. If you're really only after the IoC features, you're probably better off with a true IoC framework, which more clearly limits your design responsibility to support of your internal dependencies. If you're betting the future of the company, this is the bigger question, in my mind.
I realize that this may be subjective but I truly need an answer to this and I can't seem to find anything close enough to it in the rest of the Forum. I have read some folks say that the framework (any MVC framework) can obscure too many things while others say that it can promote good practices. I realize that frameworks are great for a certain level of programmer but what about individuals starting out? Should one just focus on the language or learn them together?
I think web development is way more than anyone grasps when they first start getting into it! Read this and know that it is all optional...but required to be really good at what you do.
I suggest that you spend time learning your language first. I would suggest learning C# simply because it is vastly more marketable and it is usually directly supported in most of MS products. By learning C# - programming in ASP.NET, console apps, servers, services, desktop apps, etc. will all be within your reach. You can program for most of the MS products as well as on many Linux type platforms.
Once you have this down then you can move to programming for the web as programming for the web has some intricacies that most other environments don't have. Concepts such as sessions, caching, state management, cross site scripting, styling, client side vs server side programming, browser support, how HTTP works, get vs post, how a form works, cookies, etc. are all at the top of the list of things to learn separately not to mention learning the ASP.NET base frameworks and namespaces.
Once you have the programming language down and then the concepts of web programming I suggest that you pause and learn database design. Don't worry about performance just yet...try to first learn good design. Performance will come next. A good start for you is Access (blasphemy I know). It is easy for a beginner to work with. And it translates into a more robust platform such as SQL Server easily. Learn at the very least some SQL...but I suggest that you learn as much as your stomach can handle. I heard someone say that SQL is like the assembly language of the database. The number one thing that slows an application to a halt is piss poor database design and poor queries. Once you have this knowledge - stuff it away in the back of your mind and take a look at a good ORM. NHybernate is probably best at the moment but is more complex that the basic learner needs. For that reason I currently suggest getting LINQ to SQL up and running as it is SUPER EASY to work with. Then look at Entity Framework (although I still think it sucks...and you should wait till EF 2.0...ERRRRR...now 4.0 released with .net 4.0). Then NHybernate.
Now is the time to start to understand the infrastructure that is required by web development. You may bump your head against this as you learn some of the web programming stuff. But you need to understand the basics of DNS, IIS, load balancers, sticky routing, round robin, clustering, fault tolerance, server hardware setup, web farms, cache farms (MemCached Win32, Velocity), SMTP, MSMQ, database mail queuing, etc. Many people may say you don't need this. That there will be some knowledgeable network admin to help you out here. However they generally know things that impact them...not you. The more you know here the more valuable you will be to the company that hires you.
Now you can get into the details of best practices and design patterns. Learn about the basics such as repository pattern, factory pattern, facade pattern, model view presenter pattern, model view controller pattern, observer pattern, and various other things. Follow Martin Fowler and others for suggestions here. Take a look at concepts such as inversion of control, dependency injection, SOLID principle, DRY, FIT, test driven design, and domain driven design, etc. Learn as much as you can here before moving to the next step.
NOW you can think about frameworks! Start by creating a basic application with ASP Classic (comes with IIS for free!). This will give you a flavor of a no frills web development environment. Take a look at ASP.NET web forms (briefly) to see how MS attempted to make things easier by hiding all the complex stuff (which you now know how to manage on your own from your readings of the above materials!!!). Now you no longer need ASP.NET Web Forms. Move immediately to ASP.NET MVC. The MVC framwork gives you all the power you need to create a good easily manageable web application. If you build something really big no framework for pure web development may be able to deal with what you need. However MVC is way more extensible for such UBER custom scenarios.
Now that you have made it through the journey to ASP.NET MVC you can take a look at things such as Microsofts Enterprise Application Blocks (such as they use at MySpace). Take a look at Elmah error logging (a must have). Look at how to build a custom SiteMapProvider for your MVC site. If you need to get into searching stuff understand Lucene.NET.
And if you made it this far...you are ready to figure out the rest on your own as it comes up! Have fun. There is a lot of room in this space for a person with some understanding of all of the above concepts.
You'll be using SOME sort of framework. The question is, what level do you want to learn at?
You'll probably not care to learn about asynchronous I/O and mutlithreaded vs. select/poll styles of web servers.
So then, your language of choice is going to provide a layer atop this, the languages preferred "web interface" API. For Java it's Servlets, the lowest level you'd typically code at for server side web applications.
You should find what this "lower level" layer is in your language and learn the API at least. You should know basic HTTP like status codes, cookies, redirects, POST vs GET, URL encoding, and possibly what some of the more important headers do.
You'll then come to appreciate what these higher level frameworks bring to the table, and be better able to evaluate what is the appropriate level of abstraction for your needs/project.
Web development requires a certain degree of organization, since it relies so much on separation of concerns. The browser, for example, is designed to display data and interact with the user. It is not designed to lookup data from a database, or perform analysis. Consequently, a web development framework can help provide services that are needed to make the browser experience a practical one.
The nice thing about employing a platform is that it will provide core components essential to the making of any web application that you won't (and shouldn't) have to think about, such as user membership, for example. Many of the design decisions and deep thinking about how to implement these services has already been done for you, freeing you to focus on what you actually want you application to do.
Of the available frameworks, I find that frameworks that implement the MVC (model-view-controller) pattern are very practical. They clearly organize different functions of web development, while giving you full control over the markup presented to the browser.
All that said, you will need some fundamental skills to fully realize web development, such as HTML, CSS, and a core programming language for the actual underlying program, whether you use a platform or not.
I don't think I agree with the Andrew. I don't think learning C is a pre requisite for web development. In fact, learning something like Javascript, Action-script or PHP is often easier due in large part to the vast numbers of sites and tutorials available, and are enough to expose you to the fundamentals of pretty much every programing language. Variable, Conditions, Loops and OOP. I just think learning C# introduces a lot of learning that isn't really relevant to web development such as pointers and memory management.
As for wether you should learn a framework first? Definitely not. Never ever. You need to be able to stand on your own two feet first and be comfortable with HTML/CSS, Server Side Scripting (PHP/ASP/Python/Ruby whatever) and love it or loathe it, but you're going to have to have a decent understanding of Flash and Action-script.
The order in which you learn these is entirely up to you. But my learning plan would go like this...
Start with HTML. It takes about half an hour to get the basics (it's made up of tags with attributes, end of lesson 1) and it's good to get it out of the way first.
Then start leaning CSS. You'll get the basics again, very quickly. But CSS is a minefield so expect to spend the rest of your life figuring it out.
Next up Action-script. Most people wouldn't agree with me, but bear with me. HTML and CSS aren't programming languages. Action-script is. And learning a programing language for the first time is difficult and tedious. The advantage Action-script has over most other languages is that the results are very visual. It's enjoyable to work with and you can sit back and take pride in your accomplishments at regular intervals. This isn't possible with server-side scripting languages or Javascript and there's a whole host of stuff you need to learn to get server side scripting up and running. You can't build space invaders in with PHP for example.
I've changed my thinking here. I would encourage beginners to ignore ActionScript and focus on Javascript. I still believe that being able to see stuff on screen quickly is a good motivator, but I would encourage people to look at canvas tag tutorials and frameworks. Javascript has come a long way since 2009, and is now the lingua franca of programming, so it's incredibly useful. My initial point about HTML and CSS not being programming languages still stands.
Then, you can start with your server side language. At the same time, you're going to have to figure out the database stuff. I recommend PHP and MySQL because it's free.
Again, I've changed my thinking here. I would encourage beginners to use Javascript on the backend (Node.js), and split their database learning between relational databases and noSql solutions such as Mongo.
Then.... learn your framework. Or better yet, roll your own. That's what I've been doing and it's supercharged my learning.
If you're getting into web development, You HAVE to know how those building blocks work. You don't have to be an expert in all the areas, but you should try to become an expert in at least one of them. If you start learning a framework before you get the fundamentals you'll be in a sticky middle ground where you don't understand why things don't work which will infuriate you, and anyone who has to work with you.
you should learn how to use framework because it would be helpfull for u in the future also it is easier to learn.
MVC will help you a lot .. trust me ... i was developing web project not using mvc and it is like mess ... (in the past there are no well know mvc and i never heard about it)
Short version: yes, and then some.
FWIW : This more generic answer may be of use to someone out there.
What: Frameworks take out tedium of using boiler-plate code again and again. They hide complexity and design issues under wizards and conventions. They also use special libraries, design patterns etc. in ways that are far from obvious to a beginner.
So using a framework is good for getting things done without knowing exactly how - like using an ATM without knowing the internals. You just add your code bits in certain places and things 'just work'.
HTML > CSS > Ruby > SQL > Rails/Javascript framework > Libraries would make for a good learning track. Rest you learn as you go along by being curious, hanging out on forums or as extended learning as need arises.
HOW: The problem starts the minute you step outside simple text-book examples (i.e. when you try to get it to do something even a bit different).
Decoding cryptic error messages when it seems like you've done everything right but things still don't work. Searching on error strings in forums may help out. Or just re-starting from scratch.
Reading up articles and books, videos, trial-and-error, hard-work, search-engines, stackoverflow/forums, local gurus, design articles, using libraries, source-code browsing are a good way to climb the learning curve gently and on a requirement basis.
Working-against-the-framework is the number one problem for beginners. Understanding what the framework expects is key to avoiding white-hair in this phase. Having enough insight to manually do what the framework automates may help reduce this second-guessing effort.
WHY: For more advanced debugging/design, it's good to know what the framework is doing under the hood esp. when things don't work as you planned. Initially you can take the help of local-gurus or forum gurus who've already done the hard work. Later as you go deeper you can take on more of that role. For example there's a "rebuilding rails" book which looks under the hood of Ruby on Rails.
Note: Some of the tips are oriented towards Ruby/Rails but you can easily substitute your favourite language/framework instead.
At what level of complexity is it mandatory to switch to an existing framework for web development?
What measurement of complexity is practical for web development? Code length? Feature list? Database Size?
If you work on several different sites then by using a common framework across all of them you can spend time working on the code rather than trying to remember what is located where and why.
I'd always use a framework of some sort, even if it's your own, as the uniformity will help you structure your project. Unless it's a one page static HTML project.
There is no mandatory limit however.
I don't think there is a level of complexity that necessitates a framework. For me whenever I am writing a dynamic site I immediately consider a framework, and if it will save me time, I use it(it almost always does, and I almost always do).
Consider that the question may be faulty. Many of the most complex websites don't use any popular, preexisting, framework. Google has their own web server and their own custom way of doing things, as does Amazon, and probably lots of other sites.
If a framework makes your task easier, or provides added value, go for it. However, when you get that framework you are tied to a new dependancy. I'm starting to essentially recreate a Joel on Software post, so I will redirect you here for more on adding unneeded dependencies to your code:
http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000007.html
All factors matter. You should measure how much time you can save using 3rd party framework and compare it to the risks of using other's code
Never "mandatory." Some problems are not well solved by any framework. It would be suggestible to switch to a framework when most of the code you are implementing has already be implemented by the framework in question in a way that suits your particular application. This saves you time, energy, and will most likely be more stable than the fresh code you would have written.
This is really two questions, you realize. :-) The answer to the first one is that it's never mandatory, but honestly, parsing HTML request parameters directly is pretty horrible right from the start. I don't want to do it even once, so I tend to go toward a framework relatively early on.
As far as what measurement is practical, well, what are you worried about? All of the descriptions that you list have value. Database size matters primarily for scaling, in my opinion (you can write a very simple app if you have a very simple schema, even if there are hundreds of thousands of rows in the database). The feature list will probably determine the number and complexity of UI pages, which will in turn help to dictate the code length.
There are frameworks that are there for getting moving very quickly with a simple blog, django or RoR all the way to enterprise full-stack applications Zope. Not to be tied to just the buzz world, you also have ASP.Net and J2EE, etc.
All frameworks and libraries are tools at your disposal. Determine which ones will make your life easier for your given project and use them.
I would say the reverse is true. At some point, your project gets so expansive, that you actually get slowed down by the shortcomings of the framework. For sufficiently large projects you may, in fact, be better off developing your own framework, to meet your own needs. I have seen many times where people were held back in the decisions they could make, or the work they could produce, because they were trying to do something that the framework didn't anticipate. And doing these things that the framework doesn't anticipate can be very troublesome. The nice thing about making your own framework, is that it can evolve with your project, to be a help to you system, instead of a hindrance.
So, to conclude, small projects should be use existing frameworks. Large projects should contain their own framework.