I'm currently working at a small web development company, we mostly do campaign sites and other promotional stuff. For our first year we've been using a "server" for sharing project files, a plain windows machine with a network share. But this isn't exactly future proof.
SVN is great for code (it's what we use now), but I want to have the comfort of versioning (or atleast some form of syncing) for all or most of our files.
What I essentially want is something that does what subversion does for code, but for our documents/psd/pdf files.
I realize subversion handles binary files too, but I feel it might be a bit overkill for our purposes.
It doesn't necessarily need all the bells and whistles of a full version control system, but something that that removes the need for incremental naming (Notes_1.23.doc) and lessens the chance of overwriting something by mistake.
It also needs to be multiplatform, handle large files (100 mb+) and be usable by somewhat non technical people.
SVN is great for binaries, too. If you're afraid you can't compare revisions, I can tell you that it is possible for Word docs, using Tortoise.
But I do not know, what you mean with "expanding the versioning". SVN is no document management system.
Edit:
but I feel it might be a bit overkill for our purposes
If you are already using SVN and it fulfils your purposes, why bother with a second system?
If you have a windows 2003 server, you can have a look at Sharepoint Services 3.0 (http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsserver/sharepoint/bb684453.aspx).
It can do version control for documents, and has a nice integration with Office, starting with Office xp, but office 2003 and 2007 are better. Office and PDF files can be indexed (via Adobe IFilter), and searched. You can also add IFilters to search metadata in your documents.
Regarding large files, by default the max filesize is 50MB, but it can be configured.
We've just moved over to Perforce and have been really happy with it. It's a commercial product, but it's so powerful and easy to use that it's worth the price per seat IMHO.
A decent folder structure and naming scheme?
VCS don't really handle images and such very well - would it be possible to have the code in a VCS (SVN/Git/Mercurial etc), along-side a sensible folder structure for the binary-assets (source photos, Photoshop PSD files, Illustrator files and so on)?
It wouldn't handle syncing, but a central file-server would achieve the same thing.
It would require some enforcing and kitten-herding to get people to name things properly, but I think having a version folder for each asset (like someproject/asset/header_logo/v01/header_logo_v01.psd) will basically be like a VCS, but easier to move between different revisions (no vcs checkout blah -r 234 when a client decides they prefered v02 more than v03)
Your question is interesting because your specifying that it be suitable for a small office. At the enterprise level, I would recommend something along the line of EMC Documentum's eRoom, but obviously thats going to be way more than you need, and more than you want cost-wise as well. I'm not sure of the licensing details on this but I've heard that if your office has MS Office, you have access to Sharepoint, which might work well for you. I'm also sure there are a lot of SAAS implementations of this kind of stuff, so you may want to look at that, keeping in mind that the servers will not be hosted by you, so if the material is extremely sensitive, thats obviously not the proper route.
You might want to consider using a Mac as your server and using Time Machine to backup your shared folders. Doing this gives you automatic backups and allows you to share through Samba so everyone can have a network drive on their computer. A Mac server is probably overkill. A Mac Mini would do for a small office or a repurposed desktop machine.
You might also consider Amazon's S3 service to do offline backups. Since it's a pay-as-you-go service this can scale with use, and if you feel you want to move to something else you can always download your data and take it somewhere else.
Windows Vista features local file versioning in its file system, which can be useful, but is limited in terms of teamwork. However, if somebody overwrites somebody else's file, a new version is stored as it should be.
Also consider KnowledgeTree. Have a look at it, some demos/screenshots are available at
http://www.knowledgetree.com/
It has a free open source Community Edition - so it's cost effective. We haven't tried it, but we chose this one over other systems for a small business looking for document versioning solution.
Related
I need to come up with a CM process for PLC code.
Currently, the system is developed using RSLogix 5000. The build product is a monolithic file that can be loaded onto a PLC for execution and edited directly in the development environment. With multiple developers, this has become a problem. They're stepping on each others changes.
As an analogy, it's as if, when doing Java development, the only wway to edit and save the source would be to load up a *.jar file into your IDE, make the change, and then save it back to the jar file. This is less than ideal.
How can I coordinate changes between multiple developers working with PLC's?
If we are talking about one big binary files, then a VCS (centralized or decentralized) is not the best tool for the job.
An external referencial (a shared disk for instance) where a batch will copy and label the current PCL state is better.
See "Tracking Software History"
To avert discontinuities in the historical record of revisions, old versions of programs must be stored.
“We take it a step further, though. Using our MDT AutoSave, we actually go out and interrogate the equipment. Overnight or at whatever frequency is specified, the software reads the programs in the PLCs and then compares that information to the last known program. The version-control software will copy the new program and store it and [then] compare it to the last one.
Launching version control is fairly simple. Required is software installation and then hardware configuration. “You would need a server and a couple of weeks of engineering and you’re good to go,” Perysyn says. However, his company uses a “shrink-wrap approach” that involves installing the software and then customization by users filling in the blanks.
That being said, when you have multiple changes from multiple developers, you need an integration environment where a first delivery can be done and validated, before pushing it to the actual server.
See also this post.
I use Unity Pro, so this may not apply for other brands.
Unity can export an "archive" file which is XML which describes the PLC program and IO setup in its entirety. After commissioning changes, I create an export and check it in to my local Git repo. This gets me an annotated history of changes, but no visual comparison. I can always use UnityDiff for comparison.
Check out http://www.mdtsoft.com/ also
You need specialized versioning system for PLCs like VersionDog.
From the manufacturer:
"Special support with Smart Compares for SIMATIC S5, SIMATIC S7,
SIMATIC PCS 7, WinCC, WinCC flexible, InTouch, CoDeSys, TwinCAT,
Phoenix PC WORX, RSLogix, Schneider Modsoft, Schneider Concept,
Schneider Unity, SINUMERIK 840D, Bosch IndraWorks and more. Also robot
programs from ABB and Kuka and office related data formats like
Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel and Adobe PDF are perfectly supported
by versiondog.
Update: Here is a screenshot showing ladder version compare. I guess that's what most PLC folks are interested in. We also use it to schedule e-mail report if PLC offline and online application versions are a match, as an alarm that something has been changed in PLC but not put into version control server.
About RSLogix5000 specifically, I have seen developers use an emulated PLC and make their changes online. The final product once developed is then put together with all the comments (as they are not contained in the PLC) and then commissioned. There are issues with changes that cannot be done online, such as AOIs. There are tools in place to stop two people editing the same logic online at once and to take ownership of sections. Backups can be done in the form of uploads, but there isn't any way to track changes.
It is a messy problem, messier still for when you are maintaining a system as you want an .ACD that you can go online with, as unless you are somehow doing a diff with the RSLogix compare tool you just see unreadable machine code like "+|Éû³´¬ÙÆW×晵‚>Ù,"
The most common revision control I have seen (sadly) is just saving the the latest file, then taking a copy and adding the current date to the file name, like the recommended control.com post described.
RSLogix5000 has always prohibited multiple users from opening and editing on the same .ACD simultaneously. However, if multiple users have identical .ACD files, open them, and all make connections to the same target controller, they each can edit on the controller simultaneously, but only if they are working on different routines. Other's edits appear automatically, if they were to look at another programmers routine.
Note that working online like this is usually done with the PLC running, even sometimes with the target system (some kind of machine) operating. This kind of arrangement for the purpose of completing work faster, or in some cases because the system is huge. No one develops like this, as it is really a debug tool and impractical for significant changes.
If one programmer finishes, and another is not done, the unfinished work of the other will be saved to the first programmer's .ACD when they save. Whoever saves last will have everyone's work.
Like others have mentioned in this thread, using file date is fairly reasonable. Some companies use a version control variable that is usually displayed on a connected HMI. Other companies use a separate document that documents who and what changes. Sometimes version notes are placed in a lengthy rung comment in the main routine.
My company uses a separate change log, and dated archive copies are maintained. Multiple programmers are only used in the most extreme cases. Someone is always designated to maintain the offline file integrity, usually the person who will be working the longest, or the project manager.
It is important to note that rung comments are not carried from one user to another before RSLogix5000 v21 because previous versions didn't store comments on the controller.
All this said, you might be trying to manage offline development. I haven't seen any sophisticated methods for this. Usually programmers write the needed routines separately, and a project manager will assemble them into a single project. The cleanest approach I've seen is where a project manager will create an architecture with global functionality, and assign routine work to others, giving them a copy of the .ACD to work with. They return the .ACD with changes, and the project manager copies and pastes their routines into the "master" project.
This is a very good question and it really depends on what you want it to do.
If you are only using Rockwell equipment it might be helpfull to look at their solution, I think it's called FactoryTalk AssetCentre.
Currently I am looking into using Bazaar from Canonical.
One thing that VonC pointed out is that a piece of software that can interogate the PLC is a deffinate plus, not a must in my oppinion but it sure as hell helps.
Am I reading your question properly and you have multiple developers working on the same PLC code at the same time? It's a scary thought but I know it sometimes needs to happen, Siemens PLC's are a bit easier to program with multiple developers but I would assign one person to consolidate and test all the changes before committing to the PLC. Any CVS system will let you create branches for every developer but how you would get them to consolidate their changes is the million dolar question.
Bart.
A simple thing to do would be to do a text diff on the .l5k files so you can easily see whether a developer has been messing with part of the file that is outside of their scope.
I saw this question just now from a link at stack exchange: Are There Realistic/Useful Solutions for Source Control for Ladder Logic Programs. Rather than have a link only answer, I'll dupe my answer here:
There is actually a canned solution - from GE-IP of all places. Check out Proficy Change Management. This product does version control from a PLC control systems point of view, rather than a pure version control of files point of view - it works as a layer sitting on top of a VCS (the scary part is that originally this VCS was Visual SourceSafe) and handles rights management, reporting and checkout/checkin.
While the product is from GE-IP, it is designed to support a variety of PLC and HMI systems out of the box.
Full disclosure, I used for work for a company selling and installing PCM (but that was 7 years ago). So if you ask me what it was like back then I'm likely to tell you where it all went wrong!
In my company we just started a trial with Copia.io
Check it out. Our first tests look very promising!
It brings, branching, merging, ladder diff etc... for multiple PLC platforms (Rockwell, Siemens, Codesys)..
PS. I work for a company that builds machines, we were looking for version-dog alike solutions with a bit more power in collaboration and diffing capabilities. I used tools like Mercurial, Git, Tortoise in past companies (not for PLC though).
I'm working on a project that deals with lots of people editing binaries, and as a coder, I'd seriously like some sort of version control. We don't deal with too much text, so I'm looking for something that allows file locking but doesn't care about merging, and which keeps track of changes. Also, many people working on the project are not coders, so someting with a gui would be nice. Does such a version control system exist?
Subversion as the server will work well.
For windows users, TortoiseSVN is a good interface - especially how it integrates with Explorer.
In regards to Merge issues on binary files - you may need to educate people on updates before commits, or possibly use exclusive lock on these files (yeah, kinda defeats the point, but with non technical people this may be the best solution).
I would also suggest taking a look at Perforce. If you are into editing lots of images perforce also supports diffing images out of the box.
File locking can be done by educating users or you can make it default for all binary files. A user cannot checkout a file unless it is exclusively locked by him. This will ensure that the binary files need not be merged.
Subversion also suits this type of development scenario but a user has to explicitly check whether the file is locked before editing it This is because subversion does not maintain an active connection with the server.
IMHO for perforce has nice GUI but subversion is FREE..
I heard of Alien Brain, some times ago. It was described as some kind of version control system for graphists/designers.
I'm a grad student in Electrical Engineering, and my lab has various projects related to ultrasonics. We have lots of code to perform simulations, but right now our situation is such that any given script has ~5 different versions. In addition, one person might develop code to simulate wave propagation, while another needs that code to perform a different simulation. This results in code being emailed back and forth quite a bit.
I suggested version control to my advisor, and she says that she likes it, but doesn't have time to manage a VCS, so it would have to be set up in such a way as to require as little maintenance as possible. Obviously, we're not releasing software to the public, so it doesn't matter if the internal structure is unconventional.
Most of the lab are not professional coders, but we all need to write MATLAB code as well as some other stuff. So, I don't expect the users to be so good about clean commits and the like, so it would be good for everyone to have their own "workplace" or something like that. But to be honest, I've only ever used version control for 3 people at once, so I'm not sure how to set this up.
So I am asking what is the best way to do this. I have only used Subversion, but I wonder if that is the right choice. We need a system that would (sorted by importance, descending):
require little maintenance
be easy to use and learn, since not everyone has used version control
have shell integration (we all use Windows XP)
be easy to set permissions and give everyone their own workspace
be easy to set up and get running
So, (1) What VCS is the best choice, and (2) how should we structure it. Thanks for the help.
We use subversion and love it, for its simplicity, easy of use, integration into the shell environment and the ability to not just version, code, but also specification documents pdf's and other resources we have.
As for structuring it, try and use your logical structure, as close as possible. Keep it simple :)
I see no reason why you should look further from Subversion. Although, for extra little maintenance you could check GitHub (since it is hosted solution, so no worrying about backup, servers etc) but there are hosted Subversion repos as well.
Especially if you're already familiar with it, so you can bring others up to speed and get extra credit :)
Once completely setup subversion should require very little maintenance, it's model is simple to apprehend, it is integrated in the shell, it supports ACLs which work just fine and it's setup is well documented.
you can setup subversion in a webserver, integrate it with a windows domain for auth if needed (otherwise you have to add/remove users, change passwords on the svn server)
You could also go the distributed vcs way, with hosted solutions no server setup, but to get that across your user's mind is gonna be way more difficult than svn. Not to mention getting it across your own head first.
Unless you have complex, fast-paced, parallel development models, I wouldn't recommend dvcs, I would stick to SVN
I agree that subversion is a very good choice.
But you can also consider mercurial: it's easier and it also has a tortoise integrated interface.
I would recommend www.assembla.com. They offer paid subscriptions but for academic projects you can apply for a free pro account.
I have used it for my academic projects and was 100% satisfied by the ease of maintenance, up-time and simplicity
The far easiest way is to use Subversion. But to get it to work the most easiest way (under Windows) you should definitely use TortoiseSVN.
After installation it works right within the explorer is just one right click away from usage. Maybe one of your guys should take a deeper look into the whole documentation to give help if needed. All other guys should take a look into the Daily Usage Guide for a first start.
Also you should take care about how you structure your repository!
Subversion has too many limitations related to the "always online + central server" model.
I would strongly recommend using a distributed version control system.
From the three main ones Git, Mercurial, Bazaar; in my experience Bazaar is by far the easiest one to use and setup.
I am interested to know what strategies people have to keep their code AND work versioned across multiple machines. For example I have a desktop PC running XP, a macbook running OSX and VMWare running XP as well as a sales laptop for running product demos. I want to know how I can always have these in sync. Subversion is a possibility for this but i find it less useful for dealing with binary files - maybe I have overlooked something here. What do other people use as they must have similar issues? Do they keep all files on a USB drive and never on the local file system. I am not always online so remote storage is not really an option.
Like others have said, subversion is your best bet for code. For binary files/non-code, I find DropBox to be very convenient. It stores revisions, has undelete, easy sharing, etc. basically an automagic, web-friendly SVN. Not having to think about it is the biggest plus for me.
I use mercurial for keeping my workfiles in sync. It's not great for big binaries either, but it lets me commit without being online and makes it easy to branche/merge different versions.
Ah the old VCS Debate.
The simplest way to share/sync Source Code is to use some sort of VCS (Version Control System) - this gives you plenty of benefits over being able to keep things synced. There are many VCSs out there, I personally use Bazaar-NG and Subversion - though I'd suggest you trial a few and see how you feel using them.
For syncing general files, espescially if it's only for yourself, I'd reccomend using "DropBox" (http://www.getdropbox.com/) - I've been using this for the last week or so, and it makes syncing up my multiple machines with a certain set of files so much more easy.
It also has some extra features that'd probably be useful for collaboration too, but I haven't tried those out yet.
Subversion works just great in our office for sales, project management, design and code files.
I store my dotfiles (.zshrc, etc) in a Git repository that is checked out into my homedir. I also do the same for the LaTeX files comprising my classwork.
I put important builds in Source Control -- it's fine for binary files.
For most files including source code we do use Subversion. It's really great.
If there are larger files oder Project management related documents which are used by people who have no access to the source control system, we use Microsoft SharePoint.
This is especially usefull if you are working with people outside your company.
I keep all my work encrypted on a USB stick. It also has a bootable Linux partition so I can get into a sensible working development environment from any machine, such as a borrowed work laptop with some software to carry to a conference that I can't move to my own machine.
When you have more people working on the same code, I'd put it in a central Subversion repository and set up scripts (in Windows you could use the autorun feature for the USB stick) to synchronize things between the repo and a USB stick always carried along.
The main point I see reg. using SVN as central repository for binary files, is that if those files are of any reasonable size, they will take some time to be synced over the net.
So if you don't want to spend time waiting for your files coming in over the net, here the building blocks for an other mirroring solution:
MirrorFolder
No better tool to be found when it comes to syncing a Data-Tanks with
several other "local" copies.
TrueCrypt
Use this to encrypt your USB-Tank just in case you drop it somewhere.
FolderShare (http://foldershare.com) is also nice for syncing files. I use it to keep documents, etc. in sync between my laptop and my desktop, for example.
Of course, for code especially this doesn't obviate the need for source control.
I am looking into improving the backup process a group of animators use. Currently they back up their work into external hard drives or DVDs manually, taking full copies of everything. The data consists of thousands of high resolution images, project files of various video editing software and sound files. Basically everything is binary data and nothing should ever be merged on checkin.
Should I investigate version control systems that I would use as a software developer (Subversion, GIT etc.), or is there a class of version control systems intended for non-SW data that would suit these needs better?
You could also check out AlienBrain. Its a project asset management system designed for artists.
If your scope is just "backup" then I'd say stick to backup solutions.
But if you are thinking about the whole lifecycle of the animator's work, then the type of use typically falls into the "Digital Asset Management" category for the very reasons you mention: huge data volumes; binary formats.
Since version control (SCM) software is usually designed for text files that can be diff'd and merged, they tend not to do so well with binary formats in high volume. While your average web graphics are not going to be an issue for (software) version control tools, you mention video, which puts you in another league.
The bad news (maybe - depends on your business) is that DAM is dominated by the big end of town. #Atmospherian has mentioned AlienBrain which is a good representative of niche offering for artists. At the other end of the spectrum you have more general purpose offerings like Oracle's UCM (formerly Stellent). Make sure you check the price tags though.
There must be open source or lower cost alternatives available - but I don't know them, sorry.
What does seem to be very common are custom inhouse solutions. Unlike managing code, where changes to the files themselves have their own significance, managing digital assets tends to focus on the metadata (the image/video is just an associated blob). And since since many shops have their own particular production workflow, it makes the territory ripe for some skunkworks programming (if that's your bent - go for it!).
So while I'm not recommending any particular products, I suggest if you think "digital asset management" rather than "version control" when scouting for solutions you will probably find answers more suited to your needs.
Your question is a little unclear - you seem to have conflated version control and backup.
If what you want is version control, then take a look at the list on wikipedia: Comparison of revision control software. That shows most of the widely known version control systems, and their basic features. You're looking for something where you can set it up to force user's to checkout before they edit. Be aware that commercial solutions range in price from moderately expensive up to 'You want HOW much?'
If what you want is backup software, then I'd start at List of backup software in wikipedia. There's a lot more choices in the backup software arena, and there are a lot of price points.
Either way, figure in the creation of a admin position (either as part of someone's job or a new person altogether, if you're big enough). I've worked with backup and version control systems that didn't have an admin and it's a problem. Either no one takes care of problems, or everyone gets their fingers in there and really screws things up. Either way, making it part of someone's job (officially) is the best way to limit damage.
I think Clearcase would work for you.The reason being everything is VOB(VersionedObject) no matter what it is ! Check once
From your description, it sounds like you would do pretty well with some basic backup software such as Retrospect. Using daily backups of workstations, only changed data would be backed up and it would be easy to roll back to an earlier version of a file if needed.
What you don't get from such a setup is the ability to check out / check in files and get warnings about conflicts.
Vidyatel has an editing software that can compere video content and find the difference between the video versions leaning on the video only.
The result is in - EDL/TC.
It might help.
You should take a look at boar. It is exactly what you want, "version control and backup for photos, videos and other binary files". It is version control designed for large binary files.