I wonder what's the point of NSDecimalNumber. It offers some arithmetics methods, but why should I use NSDecimalNumber and not just double or NSNumber? Did apple take care of some floating point arithmetics uglyness there? Would it make life easier when making heavy use of high precision and big floating point maths?
This all depends or your needs.
It is a trade off between precision, speed and size of data.
If you are writing an accounting application you cannot lose any precision and so might well use NSDecimal number.
Ig you are doing complex numerical analysis the speed could matter and so NSDecimalNumber would be too slow. But even in that case your analysis would look at the precision and errors you could afford and here could be cases where you need more precision that doubles etc give you.
NSNumber is a separate case it is a class cluster to allow storage of C type numbers in other objects and other use in Cocoa.
If your software deals with money, or other non-integer numbers of interest to accountants, you are well advised to use decimal numbers for that (rather than the binary ones that the underlying HW is optimized to process); that's why all sorts of general purpose languages and databases bend over backwards to support decimal non-integer numbers, not just binary ones.
Rounding issues with binary non-integers might easily result in fractions-of-a-cent discrepancies that, at the limit, might even land you in legal trouble, and, more realistically, will be perceived by accountants and others dealing with money &c as errors in your program, no matter how staunchly you may argue otherwise!-)
NSDecimalNumber is a fixed precision (and scale) integer scaled to a certain size to represent fractional numbers. This is a little different from a floating point number (where the point, obviously, floats...)
As an example, say you need to represent money from 0.00 to 999.99, you could store this in an integer from 0 to 99999 as an amount in pennies. The scale (in digits) is 2 and the precision is 5. In a floating point number, with precision 5, and a floating point you could represent from .00001 to 99999, but not 999.999, for example.
Related
I am used to programming in Java, where the BigDecimal type is the best for storing financial values, since there are manners to specify rounding rules over the calculations.
In the latest swift version (2.1 at the time this post is written), which native type better supports correct calculations and rounding for financial values? Is there any equivalent to java's BigDecimal? Or anything similar?
You can use NSDecimal or NSDecimalNumber for arbitrary precision numbers.
See more on NSDecimalNumbers's reference page.
If you are concerned about storing for example $1.23 in a float or double, and the potential inaccuracies you will get from floating point precision errors, that is if you actually want to stick to integer amounts of cents or pence (or whatever else). Then use an integer to store your value and use the pence/cent as your unit instead of pounds/dollars. You will then be 100% accurate when dealing in integer amounts of pence/cents, and it's easier than using a class like NSDecimalNumber. The display of that value is then purely a presentation issue.
If however you need to deal with fractions of a pence/cent, then NSDecimalNumber is probably what you want.
I recommend looking into how classes like this actually work, and how floating point numbers work too, because having an understanding of this will help you to see why precision errors arise and just what the precision limits are of a class like NSDecimalNumber, why it's better for storing decimal numbers, why floats are good at storing numbers like 17/262144 (i.e. where the denominator is a power of two) but can't store 1/100, etc.
I am having a problem with a simple division from two integers. I need it to be as accurate as possible, but for some reason the double type is working strange.
For example, if I execute the following code:
double res = (29970.0/1000.0);
The result is 29.969999999999999, when it should be 29.970.
Any idea why this is happening?
Thanks
Any idea why this is happening?
Because double representation is finite. For example, IEEE754 double-precision standard has 52 bits for fraction. So, not all the real numbers are covered. So, some of the values can not be ideally precise. In your case the result is 10^-15 away from the ideal.
I need it to be as accurate as possible
You shouldn't use doubles, then. In Java, for example, you would use BigDecimal instead (most languages provide a similar facility). double operations are intrinsically inaccurate to some degree. This is due to the internal representation of floating point numbers.
floating point numbers of type float and double are stored in binary format. Therefore numbers cant have precise decimal values. Those values are instead quantisized. If you hypothetically had only 2 bits fraction number type you would be able to represent only 2^-2 quantums: 0.00 0.25 0.50 0.75, nothing between.
I need it to be as accurate as possible
There is no silver bullet, but if you want only basic arithmetic operations (which map ℚ to ℚ), and you REALLY want exact results, then your best bet is rational type composed of two unlimited integers (a.k.a. BigInteger, BigInt, etc.) - but even then, memory is not infinite, and you must think about it.
For the rest of the question, please read about fixed size floating-point numbers, there's plenty of good sources.
We can write a simple Rational Number class using two integers representing A/B with B != 0.
If we want to represent an irrational number class (storing and computing), the first thing came to my mind is to use floating point, which means use IEEE 754 standard (binary fraction). This is because irrational number must be approximated.
Is there another way to write irrational number class other than using binary fraction (whether they conserve memory space or not) ?
I studied jsbeuno's solution using Python: Irrational number representation in any programming language?
He's still using the built-in floating point to store.
This is not homework.
Thank you for your time.
With a cardinality argument, there are much more irrational numbers than rational ones. (and the number of IEEE754 floating point numbers is finite, probably less than 2^64).
You can represent numbers with something else than fractions (e.g. logarithmically).
jsbeuno is storing the number as a base and a radix and using those when doing calcs with other irrational numbers; he's only using the float representation for output.
If you want to get fancier, you can define the base and the radix as rational numbers (with two integers) as described above, or make them themselves irrational numbers.
To make something thoroughly useful, though, you'll end up replicating a symbolic math package.
You can always use symbolic math, where items are stored exactly as they are and calculations are deferred until they can be performed with precision above some threshold.
For example, say you performed two operations on a non-irrational number like 2, one to take the square root and then one to square that. With limited precision, you may get something like:
(√2)²
= 1.414213562²
= 1.999999999
However, storing symbolic math would allow you to store the result of √2 as √2 rather than an approximation of it, then realise that (√x)² is equivalent to x, removing the possibility of error.
Now that obviously involves a more complicated encoding that simple IEEE754 but it's not impossible to achieve.
I have some inputs on my site representing floating point numbers with up to ten precision digits (in decimal). At some point, in the client side validation code, I need to compare a couple of those values to see if they are equal or not, and here, as you would expect, the intrinsics of IEEE754 make that simple check fails with things like (2.0000000000==2.0000000001) = true.
I may break the floating point number in two longs for each side of the dot, make each side a 64 bit long and do my comparisons manually, but it looks so ugly!
Any decent Javascript library to handle arbitrary (or at least guaranteed) precision float numbers on Javascript?
Thanks in advance!
PS: A GWT based solution has a ++
There is the GWT-MATH library at http://code.google.com/p/gwt-math/.
However, I warn you, it's a GWT jsni overlay of a java->javascript automated conversion of java.BigDecimal (actually the old com.ibm.math.BigDecimal).
It works, but speedy it is not. (Nor lean. It will pad on a good 70k into your project).
At my workplace, we are working on a fixed point simple decimal, but nothing worth releasing yet. :(
Use an arbitrary precision integer library such as silentmatt’s javascript-biginteger, which can store and calculate with integers of any arbitrary size.
Since you want ten decimal places, you’ll need to store the value n as n×10^10. For example, store 1 as 10000000000 (ten zeroes), 1.5 as 15000000000 (nine zeroes), etc. To display the value to the user, simply place a decimal point in front of the tenth-last character (and then cut off any trailing zeroes if you want).
Alternatively you could store a numerator and a denominator as bigintegers, which would then allow you arbitrarily precise fractional values (but beware – fractional values tend to get very big very quickly).
I write financial applications where I constantly battle the decision to use a double vs using a decimal.
All of my math works on numbers with no more than 5 decimal places and are not larger than ~100,000. I have a feeling that all of these can be represented as doubles anyways without rounding error, but have never been sure.
I would go ahead and make the switch from decimals to doubles for the obvious speed advantage, except that at the end of the day, I still use the ToString method to transmit prices to exchanges, and need to make sure it always outputs the number I expect. (89.99 instead of 89.99000000001)
Questions:
Is the speed advantage really as large as naive tests suggest? (~100 times)
Is there a way to guarantee the output from ToString to be what I want? Is this assured by the fact that my number is always representable?
UPDATE: I have to process ~ 10 billion price updates before my app can run, and I have implemented with decimal right now for the obvious protective reasons, but it takes ~3 hours just to turn on, doubles would dramatically reduce my turn on time. Is there a safe way to do it with doubles?
Floating point arithmetic will almost always be significantly faster because it is supported directly by the hardware. So far almost no widely used hardware supports decimal arithmetic (although this is changing, see comments).
Financial applications should always use decimal numbers, the number of horror stories stemming from using floating point in financial applications is endless, you should be able to find many such examples with a Google search.
While decimal arithmetic may be significantly slower than floating point arithmetic, unless you are spending a significant amount of time processing decimal data the impact on your program is likely to be negligible. As always, do the appropriate profiling before you start worrying about the difference.
There are two separable issues here. One is whether the double has enough precision to hold all the bits you need, and the other is where it can represent your numbers exactly.
As for the exact representation, you are right to be cautious, because an exact decimal fraction like 1/10 has no exact binary counterpart. However, if you know that you only need 5 decimal digits of precision, you can use scaled arithmetic in which you operate on numbers multiplied by 10^5. So for example if you want to represent 23.7205 exactly you represent it as 2372050.
Let's see if there is enough precision: double precision gives you 53 bits of precision.
This is equivalent to 15+ decimal digits of precision. So this would allow you five digits after the decimal point and 10 digits before the decimal point, which seems ample for your application.
I would put this C code in a .h file:
typedef double scaled_int;
#define SCALE_FACTOR 1.0e5 /* number of digits needed after decimal point */
static inline scaled_int adds(scaled_int x, scaled_int y) { return x + y; }
static inline scaled_int muls(scaled_int x, scaled_int y) { return x * y / SCALE_FACTOR; }
static inline scaled_int scaled_of_int(int x) { return (scaled_int) x * SCALE_FACTOR; }
static inline int intpart_of_scaled(scaled_int x) { return floor(x / SCALE_FACTOR); }
static inline int fraction_of_scaled(scaled_int x) { return x - SCALE_FACTOR * intpart_of_scaled(x); }
void fprint_scaled(FILE *out, scaled_int x) {
fprintf(out, "%d.%05d", intpart_of_scaled(x), fraction_of_scaled(x));
}
There are probably a few rough spots but that should be enough to get you started.
No overhead for addition, cost of a multiply or divide doubles.
If you have access to C99, you can also try scaled integer arithmetic using the int64_t 64-bit integer type. Which is faster will depend on your hardware platform.
Always use Decimal for any financial calculations or you will be forever chasing 1cent rounding errors.
Yes; software arithmetic really is 100 times slower than hardware. Or, at least, it is a lot slower, and a factor of 100, give or take an order of magnitude, is about right. Back in the bad old days when you could not assume that every 80386 had an 80387 floating-point co-processor, then you had software simulation of binary floating point too, and that was slow.
No; you are living in a fantasy land if you think that a pure binary floating point can ever exactly represent all decimal numbers. Binary numbers can combine halves, quarters, eighths, etc, but since an exact decimal of 0.01 requires two factors of one fifth and one factor of one quarter (1/100 = (1/4)*(1/5)*(1/5)) and since one fifth has no exact representation in binary, you cannot exactly represent all decimal values with binary values (because 0.01 is a counter-example which cannot be represented exactly, but is representative of a huge class of decimal numbers that cannot be represented exactly).
So, you have to decide whether you can deal with the rounding before you call ToString() or whether you need to find some other mechanism that will deal with rounding your results as they are converted to a string. Or you can continue to use decimal arithmetic since it will remain accurate, and it will get faster once machines are released that support the new IEEE 754 decimal arithmetic in hardware.
Obligatory cross-reference: What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic. That's one of many possible URLs.
Information on decimal arithmetic and the new IEEE 754:2008 standard at this Speleotrove site.
Just use a long and multiply by a power of 10. After you're done, divide by the same power of 10.
Decimals should always be used for financial calculations. The size of the numbers isn't important.
The easiest way for me to explain is via some C# code.
double one = 3.05;
double two = 0.05;
System.Console.WriteLine((one + two) == 3.1);
That bit of code will print out False even though 3.1 is equal to 3.1...
Same thing...but using decimal:
decimal one = 3.05m;
decimal two = 0.05m;
System.Console.WriteLine((one + two) == 3.1m);
This will now print out True!
If you want to avoid this sort of issue, I recommend you stick with decimals.
I refer you to my answer given to this question.
Use a long, store the smallest amount you need to track, and display the values accordingly.