I'm working with a web company that's approaching a point where it will likely need re-think the product as a V2 - due to outgrowing some of its V1 foundations and principles that have been built into virtually everything, from the data model to the user interfaces. For various reasons, this evolution might involve a migration from CakePHP (with which the V1 has been built) to Symfony or Zend.
I would like to ask for some experienced views on how people might have managed a transition like this for a website that has significant traffic and generates revenue. I don't want to open up a discussion on the pro's & con's of different PHP frameworks, or why this migration might be needed. Rather, I would be very interested in hearing whether there are some practical alternatives to essentially building a V2 from scratch alongside the V1 for a couple of months - and locking up precious coding time for the duration of this intense period. An example of such an alternative might be migrating an app in parts over a longer period of time.
I'd be grateful for any views from people who might have managed or been involved in such transitions.
Thanks in advance.
Symfony makes it very easy to break out of the framework at almost every level in the process, making it easy to integrate with other frameworks. Here's how I would do this:
Set up and install Symfony.
Put the existing CakePHP project inside of Symfony as a plugin.
Set the plugin to have a catch-all route that takes the parameters and processes it as a Cake PHP request. Now you have all your CakePHP pages working in Symfony. This is probably the trickiest step and may involve resolving some autoloading or other collision issues.
You can now selectively migrate CakePHP models, controllers, and views.
A major benefit of this approach is that it lets you maintain an agile development process. You can port little bits of the website at a time all the way through and test them as you go.
If you will be moving to Zend, you can start using Zend Classes one-by-one to help you with basic tasks. You can very well use any model class with ZF. So only think that will need that 'big bang' action will be the controllers/views. In fact you can also integrate your existing views with ZF. But I think that'S an overkill and it will not last very long...
So - wrapped up
switch to zend classes for basic tasks like RSS generation, emails, validation, etc. That will help you in the next step.
make the big bang action and switch (m)VC to ZF, leave models
switch models to something more Zend-ish
Related
This is a part of my course project.
Basically, there are vendors which provide food and at peak hours the queue gets so large that people have to wait long for their order.
Our project is like an online site which will enable users to order food. After ordering the food, the user will get an info as to where does he lie in the queue. This way students can order from their hostel rooms without actually going to the vendor and getting their time wasted by waiting in the line. As soon as the user orders the food, vendor gets notified of the project so that he can start preparing the food.
I am completely new to web development so I am not sure what to use. This project will also work as an exercise to learn about web development.
I have heard about Drupal & Joomla CMS. Also, Django framework is also there and I am actually confused as to what technology to use.
I am also confused as to what is the difference between a framework and a CMS? How do they differ and which one will suit me.
So, how do I go about developing the
application?
A framework is a basic application without any concrete business logic. It contains basic structure and sometimes basic features (like database connectivity and other standard libraries). You have to write your code yourself.
A CMS is a content management system. It is essentially a complete website but without the content. it provides tools to write content (web pages). The most popular ones (like Joomla) come with a bunch of templates too that you can download to give your site any look you want.
A CMS probably doesn't have enough features to provide you with this logic. You will probably need to do some programming to get this done. It may still be useful to use a CMS, though. Lots of them support various plugins that allow you to add these kind of features and still allow you to easily edit regular pages.
Frameworks are libraries turned on their heads. You plug a library into your code; a framework turns this around by abstracting a particular problem in such a way that you plug your code into it to solve a problem. It's the Hollywood principle: "Don't call us; we'll call you."
People who write frameworks have deep knowledge of a particular problem domain. They usually represent the distillation of several attempts to solve a problem, with best practices, clear abstractions, and good plug-in points made clear from long experience.
Django is a Python framework for web applications that have a browser front end and relational databases for persistence.
That's one example of a framework.
A CMS (Content Management System) allows users to dynamically add and manage content in a web application. I think they solve slightly different problems from Django, because it is specialized to the problem of content management.
I'd recommend starting your queuing problem without a front end at all - just text. Concentrate on the subtleties of queuing. Get that right with your object model and then expose a user interface to display it to users.
CMS is a 'content management system'. If provides modules that you can plug in. The end effect is it sets up a website for you, and you have admin pages where you can enter content. For special stuff, you use plugins. If you have to, you can write your own plugins.
A development framework is just a stack of technologies you can use to develop an application. So for example, the Grails framework uses Hibernate(persistence) and Spring(dependency injection and other stuff) under the covers -- it is providing and using existing tools (which are themselves frameworks) which you will in turn use to build the application.
With a framework, you basically start with a bunch of tools in your toolbox, but little or no parts of a running web app out of the box. You have to develop the functionality with the tools. With a CMS system, it's like they have implemented something for you, but it is really generic and you will have to tailor it to your needs.
I have finally decided to hop up on the train of MVC 2.
Now I have been doing a lot of reading lately and following is the architecture which I think will be good enough for most Business Web Applications.
Layered Architecture:-
Model (layer which communicates with Database). EF4
Repository (Layer which communicates with Model and includes all the queries)
Business Layer (Validations, Helper Functions, Calls to repository)
Controllers (Controls the flow of the application and is responsible for providing data to the view from the Business Layer.)
Views (UI)
Now I have decided to create a separate project for each layer (Just to respect the separation of concerns dilemma. Although I know it's not necessary but I think it makes the project look more professional :-)
I am using AutoMetaData t4 template for Validation. I also came across FluentValidation but cant find much on it. Which one should I go with?
Which View Engine to go for?
Razor View Engine Was Love at first sight. But it's still in beta and I think it won't be easy to find examples of it. Am I right?
Spark .. I can't find much on it either and don't want to get stuck somewhere in the middle crying for help when there is no one to listen...:-(
T4 templates auto generate views and I can customize them to generate the views the way I want? Will this be possible with razor and spark or do I have to create them manually?
Is there any way to Auto generate the repositories?
I would really appreciate it if I can see a project based on the architecture above.
Kindly to let me know if it's a good architecture to follow.
I have some confusion on the business layer like is it really necessary?
This is a very broad question. I decided to use Fluent NHibernate's autoconfig feature for a greenfield application, and was quite impressed. A lot of my colleagues use CakePHP, and it needed very little configuration to get it to generate a database schema compatible with the default conventions cake uses, which is great for us.
I highly suggest the book ASP.NET MVC2 in Action. This book does a good job at covering the ecosystem of libraries that are used in making a maintainable ASP.NET MVC application.
As for the choice of view engines, that can depend on your background. I personally prefer my view to look as much like the HTML as possible, so I would choose Spark. On the other hand if you are used to working with ASP.NET classic, the WebForms view engine may get you up and running fastest.
Kindly to let me know if its a good architecture to follow?
It's a fine start - the only thing I would suggest you add is a layer of abstraction between your Business Logic and Data Access (i.e: Dependency Inversion / Injection) - see this: An Introduction to Dependency Inversion.
i know its not necessary but i think it makes the project looks more professional :-)
Ha! Usually you'll find that a lot of "stuff" isn't necessary - right up until the moment when it is, at which point it's usually too late.
Re View Engines: I'm still a newbie to ASP.NET MVC myself and so aren't familiar with the view engines your talking about; if I were you I'd dream up some test scenarios and then try tackling them with each product so you can directly compare them. Often, you need to take things for a test drive to be more comfortable - although this might take time, but it's usually worth it.
Edit:
If i suggest this layer to my PM and give him the above two reasons then i don't think he will accept it
Firstly, PM's are not tech leads (usually); you have responsibility for the design of the solution - not the PM. This isn't uncommon, in my experience most of the time the PM isn't even aware they are encroaching on your turf that isn't theres. It's not that I'm a "political land grabber" but I just tend to think of "separation of concerns" and, well, I'm sure you understand.
As the designer / architect it's up to you to interpret requirements and (taking business priorities into account) come up with solution that provides the best 'platform' going forward.
(Regarding DI) My question is , is it really worth it?
If you put a gun to my head I would say yes, however the real world is a little more complex.
If you answer yes to any of these questions then its more likely using DI would be a good idea:
The system is non-trivial
The expected life of the system is more than (not sure what the right figure is here, there probably isn't one, so I'm going to put a stake in the ground at) 2 years.
The system and/or its requirements are fluid.
Splitting up the work (BL / DAL) into different teams would be advantageous to the project (perhaps you're part of a distributed team).
The system is intended for a market with a diverse technical landscape (e.g: not everyone will want to use MS SQL).
You want to perform quality testing (this would make it easier).
The system is large / complex, so splitting up functionality and putting it into other systems is a possibility.
You want to offer more than one way to store data (say a file based repository for free, and a database driven repository for a fee).
Business drivers / environment are volatile - what if they came to you and said "this is excellent but now we want to offer a cloud-based version, can you put it on Azure?"
Id also like to point out that whilst there's definitely a learning curve involved it's not that huge, and once you're up-to-speed you'll still be at least as fast as you are now; or at worst you;ll take a little longer but you'll be providing much more value (with relatively less effort).
In terms of how much effort is involved...
One-Off Tasks (beyond getting the team up to speed):
Writting a Provider Loader or picking DI Framework. Once you've done this it will be reusable in all your projects.
'New' Common Tasks (assuming you're following the approach taken in the article):
Defining interface (on paper) - this is something you'll be doing right now anyway, except that you might not realise it. Basically it's OO Design, but as it's going to be the formal interface between two or more packages you need to give it some thought (and yes you can still refactor it - but ideally the interface should be "stable" and not change a lot; if it does change it's better to 'add' than to 'remove or change' existing members).
Writting interface code. This is very fast (minutes not hours), as you're not writting any implementation; and when you go to implement you can use tools provided by your IDE to generate code-stubs based on the interface.
Things you do now that you'd do differently:
Instantiating a variable (in your BL classes) to hold the provider, probably via a factory. Writting this shouldn't take long (again, minutes not hours) and it's fairly simple code to copy, paste & refactor where required.
Writing the DAL code: should be the same as before.
Sometimes it is way more easy to learn patterns from code : Sharp Architecture is a concrete implementation of good practices in MVC, using DDD.
Ruby on Rails has a screencast presentation they use to promote their framework that shows how to code a basic weblog system in 15 minutes with RoR. Does the Zend PHP Framework have a similar screencast/presentation/whatever demonstrating something similar? It doesn't have to be a blog specifically, but I would definitely like to find a presentation that shows some rapid application development using ZF.
Where I'm coming from: I have been programming on and off for years now. I started out with QBASIC waaaaay back in the day making little programs (text adventure games, screensavers, simple little things). I then moved to C++ but never really did anything too impressive with it. Since then (probably 5 years or so now) I have started to use C# for my desktop development and PHP for my web development. I've made some pretty cool tools here and there, but am certainly not a professional programmer by any stretch of the term as it has always simply been a hobby of mine.
Right now I have two major web applications that I will start work on shortly. (Like tomorrow, or later tonight ideally.. :) ) Both will be database-driven apps that will require user registration, the ability to manipulate data that is specific to their account (their posts, listings, user account details, etc), amongst other things.
Currently I am evaluating different frameworks to help me develop these web apps more quickly. I've been looking at, and have heard good things about Ruby on Rails. Hulu and YellowPages.com using it is an obvious endorsement - Of course, I have heard about the scalability issues that it potentially has; but that shouldn't be an issue with what I am working on. I don't expect millions of users per day for either project.
I am also seriously looking at the Zend Framework for my needs because I already have some experience with PHP. Ideally I would like to find a ZF screencast that shows an app being written quickly so that I have a roughly equal comparison between the two options I am exploring and can see first-hand how things get done in both.
That said - I am not opposed to considering frameworks other than RoR or ZF. The only research I've done on the subject has been over the past couple of days so I am quite certain that there are other excellent options out there that I've not even looked at - or heard of. Of course, it'd be awesome if there is a rapid app dev presentation that I can watch for whatever else is suggested.
So - Suggestions? Links to good screencasts that show rapid application development in other frameworks? Are there other PHP frameworks that I should be considering? (Ones that are easy to deploy would be ideal, so I don't have to purchase a dedicated server that I have full control over. I'd like to keep my hosting costs down assuming that it's reasonable)
Thanks in advance!
-Sootah
You can checkout ZendCasts.com
However, when deciding between ZF and RoR, you should be aware that they are very different from each other. RoR is a full stack with integrated ORM built on AR and a rather rigid structure. It's powerful and there is lots of magic inside and I'd say it's RAD capabilities are above ZF due to rake being more powerful than Zend_Tool
ZF, on the other hand, is first and foremost a loosely coupled component library with a use-at-will architecture for maximum flexibility. You can use it's components together, but you don't have to. While it does feature convention over configuration, ZF doesn't take you by the hand too much. It expects you know how to walk. Also ZF has no full fledged ORM and no AR, but you can very much integrate Doctrine or Propel or whatever library you like to use.
You often hear folks new to ZF complain about it is hard to get into it, simply because they expect ZF to work like RoR or Symfony or Cake, e.g. a full stack framework
EDIT:
Cake aims to be a port of RoR to PHP. It is built around ActiveRecord. Like CI < v2, it is backwards compatible with PHP4, which means it doesn't fully utilize the OOP capabilities you get in PHP5. I'd say both are easier to get in than ZF though.
This is a common question on SO.
I posted some valuable links in my response to this post
If you Google for such tutorials, look for Zend Application or Zend Tool, not ZF.
The difference between the other frameworks and Zend Framework is that Zend Framework is rather a general purpose framework, not application framework (not only for MVC, HTTP). E.g. Google uses ZF to provide access to their services.
You may easily use Symfony or CodeIgnitier with Zend Framework together.
BTW, To be precise, tutorials you ask are not blogs, but just a simple CRUD controllers. You may use Wordpress to create blog in 15 minutes, (then customize it) but not a PHP Framework.
If you were going to start building web sites as a consulting business on the side -- keeping your day job -- and you also had a toddler and a wife, what frameworks/tools would you pick to save you typing?
Any language.
I'm looking for a productivity superstar stack that won't tie my hands too much when I have to update the site 6 months later, or "evolve" the data model once in production.
It needs to allow me to say "yes" to the client: community features, CMS, security, moderation, AJAX, ...
I would suggest Django. Super simple to get something up and running really quick. You are using Python which has a large library to go with it. For me Ruby on Rails would be a close second.
I'd probably look at DotNetNuke. Its easy to set up (a lot of hosts will do it for you) and easy to use and put together a custom site that business's will be able to maintain in the future.
Its fairly easy to create custom modules that are specific to a business and hundreds of modules for sale (or free) that can be integrated into DNN for special uses.
Take a look at Microsoft's Sharepoint server if you'd like a pre-made framework with many options for plugging in your own code. Sharepoint is kind of a world unto itself but it is a very powerful environment.
Update: I'm surprised to have been voted down on this one. Keep in mind that the questioner specifically requested frameworks that included a CMS. Sharepoint meets this criteria - unlike straight .NET or other web development frameworks.
If you are going to vote the entry down, I think you owe it to the person who asked the question to explain why you don't think he should not even explore it as an option. You could be right - collective wisdom is what voting on SO is all about. But without an explanation, we don't know why you think you are right.
My answers are going to revolve around the .NET stack.
Use Master pages and CSS templates. This makes it so much easier to pop in a new look and feel for your customer.
For sure I'd include the Dynamic Data framework in the .NET world.
Hosting might become an issue for your customer. Questions around managing email addresses, procedures on how to quickly update the website to include the new contact phone number (different for each customer, I'd assume) Consider getting a reseller account on your favorite webhost, and dole out webhosting accounts as appropriate. There are lots of issues around this point. It may turn out to be a nice source of recurring revenue.
Build yourself a few patterns including a database wrapper which would handle all your data calls (i.e. a dll which wraps all your data calls, sets up your ADO.NET objects, runs your sproc calls, and picks up the connstring from app.config or something similar.)
This goes a long way to maintainability as well.
I would recomend going with anything MVC in a language you can undertand! Theres a couple of CMS's in python, php and ruby using that design and well... that allows you to be ready for combat for Ajax and expanding anything very fast.
This is definitely not a question that can be answered.
I prefer asp.net webforms because I think it allows for extremely rapid web app development, but I am sure you will receive recommendations for:
asp.net mvc
Ruby on Rails
PHP and some framework
Python and some framework such as Django
I believe PHP has the most pre-built apps that you can use, though asp.net also has the things you are looking for.
All of these platforms and frameworks can do what you want.
Choose between Rails and Django. They both have different strengths. I like Rails better in general, but Django's admin interface can save you a lot of time when you need it.
There's another factor to take into consideration here: what are you the most familiar with? I believe that some studies have found upwards of a 30% loss of productivity when trying to learn a new language/framework.
Sometimes, there's nothing wrong with just sticking to what you know. But if you're interested in what languages/frameworks to learn, I'll refer you to the other posts because the above was the only thing I really have to add.
I recommend looking into Grails. It uses Groovy which is similiar to Java (so if you know this already you're good to go). Groovy runs on the JVM so you can still use all the great libraries already available for Java. Yet, since it's a dynamic language with a lot of the similar bells and whistles like Ruby you can use closures and that kind of neat stuff when you need/want to. And you're not slowed down by Java's traditonal slow compile-deploy-test development cycle.
Grails is already setup with Hibernate and Spring. You can create CRUD application in practically no-time (pretty much like Rails applications), and at the same time drill down and be able to control every little details since it's built on such proven and well-supported technologies. In addition there's literally hundreds of plugins available that helps you easily set up things like mailing lists, security, AJAX components and so on.
Otherwise, if you want to set up a community site and don't want to code a single line you could always check out ning.com.
I need to create a internal website and can't figure out if we should be writing our own, or using an existing framework.
Most of the website will essentially be a front end to a database. We need to have a number of people enter data into forms. We then want to be able to show different views of all this data -- including running small queries (e.g. how many resources do we have with attribute 'X'). As is usually the case with this, we will want to tweak the UI on a regular basis.
There actual data design is not a simple 1:1 mapping of resource to entry. For example, we might track several attributes for one item as the "base set of data" for that item. Then we could have several additional sets of data.
Imagine a recipe application. You might have a recipse for a starter. This could then be referenced by several other recipes that need that same information.
I feel like this is best suited for a general framework (Ruby on Rails, Django, etc), but I wonder if it might not be good for a "traditional" CMS platform like Drupal? I specifically mention Drupal since the people that would develop this have the most knowledge using php and MySql.
I usually lean towards wanting to use an existing platform, but am interested in other people's thoughts. To give you an idea of scope, I would imagine if we wrote this from scratch we are probably talking about 3-5 weeks of development.
Would you recommend writing our own, or using an existing framework? If you would suggest using something that exists what would you recommend?
Would you consider this to be best suited for a straight framework or a straight CMS?
Thanks!
It's possible that Drupal will be a good solution for you, though you'll probably need a few key additional modules like the "Content Creation Kit" (CCK) and "Views".
Unlike other web CMS systems (WordPress, Exponent, phpNuke), Drupal treats your entries as a "pool" of content, from which you pull various subsets for different areas of your site.
There is a lot of documentation for Drupal (almost too much), the biggest problem is finding the piece that's relevant to what you're trying to achieve. Diving on to one of the interactive IRC channels can be a good idea, as the community is quite helpful and is almost always willing to give you a pointer in the right direction.
The power, flexiblity and capability of Drupal is both its biggest strength and weakness - I know it took me a bit of effort to get my head around key concepts, and I'm far from being a Drupal Expert.
One last comment: Having written my own CMS from scratch, which I abandoned in favour of Drupal, I'd suggest your 3-5 week estimate is likely on the light side.
Stay away from Drupal for any site that requires customized functionality. I recently used Drupal for a website at work, and it was VERY difficult to figure out how to get it to do what I wanted it to do. There is a lot of documentation out there, but all of it is unhelpful -- it answers very specific questions about specific issues but does not provide any context as to how you would approach building the site as a whole. If you're a programmer, using a more general framework will probably work better, as CMS's are designed for a specific kind of site, and if you want your site to have non-standard functionality you are going to be fighting the system instead of working with it. If your developers are most experienced in PHP, try one of the PHP frameworks that mimics the architecture of Rails -- e.g. cakePHP or CodeIgniter.
CMSes usually make sense when you have a broad and potentially expanding array of different content types and modes you need to handle. Drupal has literally dozens. Given than you mentioned RoR, it sounds like what you need is more of a MVC style framework. Maybe similar to the sort of thing stackoverflow was built with. .NET an issue for you?
If you are really limited to 3-5 weeks, however, I think a Rails-based strategy makes sense so go with RoR or CodeIgniter
If Drupal can do what you need easily I would say go with Drupal. I don't know much about Drupal though.
Otherwise, what you describe sounds like a data driven web app or more like a reporting app. It sounds like you might have some very specific needs or that users might want very specific needs in the future. That is something hard to get from premade software since you have no idea what users are going to request. Since I'm a programmer I would probably want to build it myself.
Funny you should ask... I just came across this in SD Time's Linkpalooza this afternoon:
Ten free powerful content management systems…
There are at least 4 more mentioned in the comments to this post.
It seems to make little sense to develop a new one with so many from which to choose!
BTW, this is neither a recommendation nor endorsement of any particular CMS.
Treat Drupal as a framework. Core modules + CCK + Views is a good start to build on.
If you're doing something that you might want to expose to other applications, consider the Services module. A lot of interesting things have been done with flex frontends connected to drupal running services with amfphp.