We are considering using MSMQ as a message processing service in our application. What we want is - MSMQ in a farm of servers sitting behind Network Load Balancer (NLB) that distributes load among the nodes. I have the following questions for which I couldn't find any pointers online.
1) Do I need to have MSMQ installed in all nodes?
2) If so, when the sender application sends a message to MSMQ should it send to all nodes?
3) If answer to my 2nd question is yes, then when a message is received by the client application, how should the other nodes be notified about the message being received by the client and subsequently remove from them?
Would appreciate any help/pointers.
Here are some blog posts that may help:
Oil and water - MSMQ transactional messages and load balancing
Load-balancing MSMQ - a brief discussion
Q1) Do I need to have MSMQ installed in all nodes?
A1) You need MSMQ installed on every server that a message will be delivered too.
Q2) If so, when the sender application sends a message to MSMQ should it send to all nodes?
A2) That's one way to load-balance where you send X messages to X nodes but only read from 1 node, discarding the other copies.
Another method is to send to a network load balancer that sends one message to one randomly-selected node, although MSMQ is very sticky so very difficult/impossible to load balance high volumes in that way.
Q3) If answer to my 2nd question is yes, then when a message is received by the client application, how should the other nodes be notified about the message being received by the client and subsequently remove from them?
A3) That is the down-side to the type of load-balancing you're suggested. MSMQ won't remove a message unless either your application removes it or the TimeToBeReceived timer expires. basically, you will need to have co-ordinated client applications if you need to avoid duplicate message processing.
Cheers
John Breakwell
Related
I need some guidance wrt Kafka and Distributed Systems
I have created a distributed system using Kafka. Let us assume the following architecture and data flow
The load balancer sends the request to the Service Containers
The Service containers send the message to the Kafka Worker Queue and maintains a Set to maintain the messages it has sent to the Kafka
A single GPU worker gets the message and performs work accordingly and writes the answer to the answer queue. The request ID is in the answer.
All the services get the Answer and they check if the request ID of the answer belongs to the Set. If no, they drop the message. Otherwise they send the reply to the client.
My questions are following
In this architecture the answer is recieved by all the services and they get very less useful messages for them. How to improve it so that ONLY the service sending the message gets the answer.
How can I do this in a autoscaling enviornment where the number of service nodes/containers/pods is dynamic?
I'm trying to build instant messaging app. Clients will not only send messages but also often send audios. And I've decided to use websocket connection to communicate with clients. It is fast and allows to send binary data.
The main idea is to receive from client1 message and notify about it client2. But here's the thing. My app will be running on GAE. And what if client1's socket is opened on server1 and client2's is opened on server2. This servers don't know about each others clients.
I have one idea how to solve it, but I am sure it is shitty way. I am going to use some sort of communication between servers(for example JMS or open another websocket connection between servers, doesn't matter right now).
But it surely will lead to a disaster. I can't even imagine how often those servers will speak to each other. For each message server1 should notify server2, server2 should notify client2. But things become even worse when serverN comes into play.
Another way I see this to work is Firebase. But it restricts message size to 4KB. So I can't send audios via it. As a solution I can notify client about new audio and he goes to my server for it.
Hope I clearly explained the problem. Does anyone know how to solve it? Or maybe there are another ways to build such apps?
If you are building a messaging cluster and expect communicating clients to connect to different instances of the server then server-server communication is inevitable. Usually it's not a problem though.
First, if you don't use any load balancing your clients will connect to the same server 50% of time on average (in case of 2 servers).
Second, intra-datacenter links are fast and free in all known public clouds.
Third, you can often do something smart on the frontend to make sure two likely to communicate clients connect to the same server. For instance direct all clients from the same country to the same server using DNS load balancing.
The second part of the question is about passing large media files. It's a common best practice to send it out of band - store on the server and only pass the reference to it. Like someone suggested in the comment, save the audio on the server and just send a message like "audio is available, fetch it from here ...". You don't need to poll the server for that. Just fetch it once when the receiving client requests it.
In general, it seems like you are trying to reinvent the wheel. Just use something off the shelf.
Let all client get connected to multiple servers and each server keeps this metadata
A centralized system like zookeeper stores active servers details
When a client c1 sends a message to client c2:
the message is received by a server (say s1, we can add a load balancer to distribute incoming requests)
s1 will broadcast this information to all other servers to get which server the client c2 is connected to OR a better approach to use consistent hashing which decides which server the client can connect to & in this approach message broadcast is not required
the corresponding server responses to server s1 (say s2)
now s1 sends the message m to s2 and server s2 to client c2
Cons of the above approach:
Each server will have a connection with the n-1 servers, creating a mesh topology
Centralized system (zookeeper) becomes a single point of failures (which is solvable)
Apps like Whatsapp, G-Talk uses XMPP and TCP/IP.
Is there some standard configuration setting, service, or tool that accepts messages from one queue and moves them on to another one? Automatically handling the dead message problem, and providing some of retry capability? I was thinking this is what "MSMQ Message Routing" does but can't seem to find documentation on it (except for on Windows Mobile 6, and I don't know if that's relevant).
Context:
I understand that when using MSMQ you should always write to a local queue so that failure is unlikely, and then X should move that message to a remote queue. Is my understanding wrong? Is this where messaging infrastructure like Biztalk comes in? Is it unnecessary to write to a local queue first to absolutely ensure success? Am I supposed to build X myself?
As Hugh points out, you need only one MSMQ Queue to Send messages in one direction from a source to a destination. Source and destination can be on the same server, same network or across the internet, however, both source and destination must have the MSMQ service running.
If you need to do 'message' routing (e.g. a switch which processes messages from several source or destination queues, or routing a message to one or more subscribers based on the type of message etc) you would need more than just MSMQ queue.
Although you certainly can use BizTalk to do message routing, this would be expensive / overkill if you didn't need to use other features of BizTalk. Would recommend you look at open source, or building something custom yourself.
But by "Routing" you might be referring to the queue redirection capability when using HTTP as the transport e.g. over the internet (e.g. here and here).
Re : Failed delivery and retry
I think you have most of the concepts - generally the message DELIVERY retry functionality should be implicit in MSMQ. If MSMQ cannot deliver the message before the defined expiry, then it will be returned on the Dead Letter Queue, and the source can then process messages from the DLQ and then 'compensate' for them (e.g. reverse the actions of the 'send', indicate failure to the user, etc).
However 'processing' type Retries in the destination will need to be performed by the destination application / listener (e.g. if the destination system is down, deadlocks, etc)
Common ways to do this include:
Using 2 Phase commit - under a distributed unit of work, pull the message off MSMQ and process it (e.g. insert data into a database, change the status of some records etc), and if any failure is encountered, then leave the message back onto the queue and the DB changes will be rolled back.
Application level retries - i.e. on the destination system, in the event of 'retryable' type errors (timeout due to load, deadlocks etc) then to sleep for a few seconds and then retry the same transaction.
However, in most cases, indefinite processing retries are not desirable and you would ultimately need to admit defeat and implement a mechanism to log the message and the error and remove it from the queue.
But I wouldn't 'retry' business failures (e.g. Business Rules, Validation etc) and the behaviour should be defined in your requirements of how to handle these (e.g. account is overdrawn, message is not in a correct format or not valid, etc), e.g. by returning a "NACK" type message back to the source.
HTH
MSMQ sends messages from one queue to another queue.
Let's say you have a queue on a remote machine. You want to send a message to that queue.
So you create a sender. A sender is an application that can use the MSMQ transport to send a message. This can be a .Net queue client (System.Messaging), a WCF service consumer (either over netMsmqBinding or msmqIntegrationBinding, BizTalk using the MSMQ adapter, etc etc.
When you send the message, what actually happens is:
The MSMQ queue manager on the sender machine writes the message to a temporary local queue.
The MSMQ queue manager on the sender machine connects to the MSMQ manager on the receiving machine and transmits the message.
The MSMQ queue manager on the receivers machine puts the message onto the destination queue.
In certain situations MSMQ will encounter messages which for some reason or another cannot be received on the destination queue. In these situations, if you have indicated that a message will use the dead-letter queue then MSMQ will make sure that the message is forwarded to the dead-letter queue.
I haven't read enough about or used MSMQ till now. For many years now, I've only known that they exist. So, forgive me if my question indicates lack of rudimentary knowledge on the subject.
If I have to send a message from machine A to machine B, but they are not on the same network, is it possible to use MSMQ as the message delivery mechanism?
I believe public queues in MSMQ can only send messages between machines that may be geographically far off from each other, but are on the same domain.
I believe in MSMQ speak this is cross forest support. More about it here.
MSMQ has an optional HTTP transport module (which requires Internet Information Server). With this HTTP transport, a MSMQ server could receive messages sent from 'everywhere'.
Send MSMQ Messages Securely Across the Internet with HTTP and SOAP
I need to work with MSMQ (Microsoft Message Queuing). What is it, what is it for, how does it work? How is it different from web services?
With all due respect to #Juan's answer, both are ways of exchanging data between two disconnected processes, i.e. interprocess communication channels (IPC). Message queues are asynchronous, while webservices are synchronous. They use different protocols and back-end services to do this so they are completely different in implementation, but similar in purpose.
You would want to use message queues when there is a possibility that the other communicating process may not be available, yet you still want to have the message sent at the time of the client's choosing. Delivery will occur the when process on the other end wakes up and receives notification of the message's arrival.
As its name states, it's just a queue manager.
You can Send objects (serialized) to the queue where they will stay until you Receive them.
It's normally used to send messages or objects between applications in a decoupled way
It has nothing to do with webservices, they are two different things
Info on MSMQ:
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms711472(v=vs.85).aspx
Info on WebServices:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms972326.aspx
Transactional Queue Management 101
A transactional queue is a middleware system that asynchronously routes messages of one sort of another between hosts that may or may not be connected at any given time. This means that it must also be capable of persisting the message somewhere. Examples of such systems are MSMQ and IBM MQ
A Transactional Queue can also participate in a distributed transaction, and a rollback can trigger the disposal of messages. This means that a message is guaranteed to be delivered with at-most-once semantics or guaranteed delivery if not rolled back. The message won't be delivered if:
Host A posts the message but Host B
is not connected
Something (possibly but not
necessarily initiated from Host A)
rolls back the transaction
B connects after the transaction is
rolled back
In this case B will never be aware the message even existed unless informed through some other medium. If the transaction was rolled back, this probably doesn't matter. If B connects and collects the message before the transaction is rolled back, the rollback will also reverse the effects of the message on B.
Note that A can post the message to the queue with the guarantee of at-most-once delivery. If the transaction is committed Host A can assume that the message has been delivered by the reliable transport medium. If the transaction is rolled back, Host A can assume that any effects of the message have been reversed.
Web Services
A web service is remote procedure call or other service (e.g. RESTFul API's) published by a (typically) HTTP Server. It is a synchronous request/response protocol and has no guarantee of delivery built into the protocol. It is up to the client to validate that the service has been correctly run. Typically this will be through a reply to the request or timeout of the call.
In the latter case, web services do not guarantee at-most-once semantics. The server can complete the service and fail to deliver a response (possibly through something outside the server going wrong). The application must be able to deal with this situation.
IIRC, RESTFul services should be idempotent (the same state is achieved after any number of invocations of the same service), which is a strategy for dealing with this lack of guaranteed notification of success/failure in web service architectures. The idea is that conceptually one writes state rather than invoking a service, so one can write any number of times. This means that a lack of feedback about success can be tolerated by the application as it can re-try the posting until it gets a 'success' message from the server.
Note that you can use Windows Communication Foundation (WCF) as an abstraction layer above MSMQ. This gives you the feel of working with a service - with only one-way operations.
For more information, see:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms789048.aspx
Actually there is no relation between MSMQ and WebService.
Using MSMQ for interprocess communication (you can use also sockets, windows messaging, mapped memory).
it is a windows service that responsible for keeping messages till someone dequeue them.
you can say it is more reliable than sockets as messages are stored on a harddisk but it is slower than other IPC techniques.
You can use MSMQ in dotnet with small lines of code, Just Declare your MessageQueue object and call Receive and Send methods.
The Message itself can be normal string or binary data.
As everyone has explained MSMQ is used as a queue for messages. Messages can be wrapper for actual data, object and anything that you can serialize and send across the wire. MSMQ has it's own limitations. MSMQ 1.0 and MSMQ 2.0 had a 4MB message limit. This restriction was lifted off with MSMQ 3.0. Message oriented Middleware (MOM) is a concept that heavily depends on Messaging. Enterprise Service Bus foundation is built on Messaging. All these new technologies, depend on Messaging for asynchronous data delivery with reliability.
MSMQ stands for Microsoft Messaging Queue.
It is simply a queue that stores messages formatted so that it can pass to DB (may on same machine or on Server). There are different types of queues over there which categorizes the messages among themselves.
If there is some problem/error inside message or invalid message is passed, it automatically goes to Dead queue which denotes that it is not to be processed further. But before passing a message to dead queue it will retry until a max count and till it is not processed. Then it will be sent to the Dead queue.
It is generally used for sending log message from client machine to server or DB so that if there is any issue happens on client machine then developer or support team can go through log to solve problem.
MSMQ is also a service provided by Microsoft to Get records of Log files.
You get Better Idea from this blog http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms711472(v=vs.85).aspx.