I have integrated Lua with my ObjC code (iphone game). The setup was pretty easy, but now, I have a little problem with the bridging. I have googled for results, etc... and it seems there isn't anything that could work without modifications. I mean, I have checked luaobjc bridge (it seems pretty old and dicontinued), I heard about LuaCocoa but it seems not to work on iphone, and wax is too thick.
My needs are pretty spare, I just need to be able to call objc methods from lua and don't mind having to do extra work to make it work (I don't need a totally authomatic bridging system).
So, I have decided to build a little bridge myself based on this page http://anti-alias.me/?p=36. It has key information about how to accomplish what I need, but the tutorial is not completed and I have some doubts about how to deal with method overloading when called from lua, etc...
Do anybody know if there exist any working bridge between objc and lua on the iphone or if it could be so hard to complete the bridge the above site offers?
Any information will be welcomed.
Don't reinvent the wheel!
First, you are correct that luaobjc and some other variants are outdated. A good overview can be found on the LuaCocoa page. LuaCocoa is fine but apparently doesn't support iPhone development, so the only other choice is Wax. Both LuaCocoa and Wax are runtime bridges, which means that you can (in theory) access every Objective-C class and method in Lua at the expense of runtime performance.
For games and from my experience the runtime performance overhead is so significant that it doesn't warrant the use of any runtime binding library. From a perspective of why one would use a scripting language, both libraries defy the purpose of favoring a scripting language over a lower-level language: they don't provide a DSL solution - which means you're still going to write what is essentially Objective-C code but with a slightly different syntax, no runtime debugging support, and no code editing support in Xcode. In other words: runtime Lua binding is a questionable solution at best, and has lots of cons going against it. Runtime Lua bindings are particularly unsuited for fast-paced action games aiming at a constantly high framerate.
What you want is a static binding. Static bindings at a minimum require you to declare what kind of methods will be available in Lua code. Some binding libraries scan your header files, others require you to provide a special declaration file similar to a header file. Most binding libraries can use both approaches. The benefit is optimal runtime performance, and being able to actually design what classes, methods and variables Lua scripts have access to.
There are but 3 candidates to bind Lua code to an iPhone app. To be fair, there are a lot more but most have one or more crucial flaws or are simply not stable or for special purposes only, or simply don't work for iPhone apps. The candidates are:
tolua and tolua++
luabind
SWIG
Big disadvantage shared by all Lua static binding libraries: none of them can bind directly to Objective-C code. All require to have an additional C or C++ layer available that ultimately interfaces with your Objective-C code. This has to do with how Objective-C works as a language and how small a role it has played (so far) when it comes to embedding Lua in Objective-C apps.
I recently evaluated all three binding libraries and came to enjoy SWIG. It is very well documented but has a bit of a learning curve. But I believe that learning curve is warranted because SWIG can be used to combine nearly any programming and scripting language, it can be advantageous to know how to use SWIG for future projects. Plus, once you understand their definition file implementation it turns out to be very easy (especially when compared to luabind) and considerably more flexible than tolua.
OK, bit late to the party but in case others come late also to this post here's another approach to add to the choices available: hand-code your LUA APIs.
I did a lecture on this topic where I live coded some basic LUA bindings in an hour. Its not hard. From the lecture I made a set of video tutorials that shows how to get started.
The approach of using a bindings generation tool like SWIG is a good one if you already have exactly the APIs that you need to call written in Objective-C and it makes sense to bring all those same API's over into LUA.
The pros of the hand-coding approach:
your project just compiles with one standard Xcode target
your project is all C & Obj-C
the LUA is just data shipped along with your images
no fiddling with "do I check in generated code" to Git
you create LUA functions for just the things you want
you can easily have hosted scripts that live inside an object
the API is under your control and is well known
dont expose engine APIs to level building team/tools
The last point is just that if you have detail functions that only make sense at the engine level and you don't want to see those when coding the game play you'll need to tell SWIG not to bind those.
Steffens answer is perfect and this approach is just another option, that may suit some folks better depending on the project.
Related
I am curious to know if there is any kind of programming library/framework for the C language for cross-platform programming of course. I mean there are already frameworks like Wxwidgets, Boost, Qt, U++ and etc for C++ available but I have not yet found any for C .
Updated Info:
We are trying to build an underlying Framework/library to be used in our project. We are going to eliminate the dotnet and instead provide a counterpart for those libraries which is fast and less demanding.
We will be working on a server/client based project, and thus the underlying services must be fast and also portable. GUI is not our priority now, but libraries providing threading capabilities is of importance to us.
And for the ANSI part, I think we are fine with that at the moment unless something changes that in the future.
if you write plain ANSI C, it should work on every POSIX system.
The most successful example of cross platform C library is standard C library itself (IMHO).
If you're looking for GUI toolkit GTK is the answer,
if you're looking for terminal UI, ncurses is pretty portable.
If you're looking for general use libraries, as long as they're written in ANSI C, should work almost everywhere, as long as it doesn't use system level APIs.
Can you just tell us, what kind of library/framework you are looking for ?
GTK+ is long established and actively maintained cross-platform C-only (or primarily) toolkit. You'll find not only on-line documentation but also books written about it. It is the framework backing up the GNOME project.
GTK+ is meant to build applications with UI, first of all. However, even if you don't need UI you'll find that some GTK+ components, namely GLib, provide general multiplatform support comparable with Qt. Actually, I needed a framework without UI at first and chose GLib over APR because I was able to find documentation and tutorials easier.
GTK+ was initially developed on UN*X an X-Windows which remains the platform where you can get it running the most easily. I wouldn't say that it is more difficult on Windows; it is just that you have more compiling environment options. I started with prepared GTK+ packages and MinGW but ended up integrating GTK+ with MSVC.
GTK+ exists for a long time and some people may find it old-school. On the other hand, it shows that it has proven to be stable and useful. There are also bindings for C++ and C#.
As with every big framework, the more you need from it the longer you will have to learn. But the other way round it works too; the more you learn the more you'll be able to do with it. Consistent coding style helps getting used to it.
--- Ferda
I'm moving away from strict Android development and wanting to create iPhone applications. My understanding is that I can code the backend of iOS applications in C/C++ and also that I can use the NDK to include C/C++ code in Android apps. My question however is how? I've googled quite a bit and I can't find any clear and concise answers.
When looking at sample code for the NDK, it seems that all the function names etc. are Android (or at least Java) specific and so I would not be able to use this C/C++ backend to develop an iPhone frontend?
I'd appreciate some clarification on this issue and if at all available some code to help me out? (even just a simple Hello World that reads a string from a C/C++ file and displays it in an iOS and Android app).
Thanks guys
Chris
Note that I almost exclusively work on "business/utility/productivity" applications; things that rely heavily on fairly standard UI elements and expect to integrate well with their platform. This answer reflects that. See Mitch Lindgren's comment to Shaggy Frog's answer for good comments for game developers, who have a completely different situation.
I believe #Shaggy Frog is incorrect here. If you have effective, tested code in C++, there is no reason not to share it between Android and iPhone, and I've worked on projects that do just that and it can be very successful. There are dangers that should be avoided, however.
Most critically, be careful of "lowest common denominator." Self-contained, algorithmic code, shares very well. Complex frameworks that manage threads, talk on the network, or otherwise interact with the OS are more challenging to do in a way that doesn't force you to break the paradigms of the platform and shoot for the LCD that works equally badly on all platforms. In particular, I recommend writing your networking code using the platform's frameworks. This often requires a "sandwich" approach where the top layer is platform-specific and the very bottom layer is platform-specific, and the middle is portable. This is a very good thing if designed carefully.
Thread management and timers should also be done using the platform's frameworks. In particular, Java uses threads heavily, while iOS typically relies on its runloop to avoid threads. When iOS does use threads, GCD is strongly preferred. Again, the solution here is to isolate the truly portable algorithms, and let platform-specific code manage how it gets called.
If you have a complex, existing framework that is heavily threaded and has a lot of network or UI code spread throughout it, then sharing it may be difficult, but my recommendation still would be to look for ways to refactor it rather than rewrite it.
As an iOS and Mac developer who works extensively with cross-platform code shared on Linux, Windows and Android, I can say that Android is by far the most annoying of the platforms to share with (Windows used to hold this distinction, but Android blew it away). Android has had the most cases where it is not wise to share code. But there are still many opportunities for code reuse and they should be pursued.
While the sentiment is sound (you are following the policy of Don't Repeat Yourself), it's only pragmatic if what you can share that code in an efficient manner. In this case, it's not really possible to have a "write once" approach to cross-platform development where the code for two platforms needs to be written in different languages (C/C++/Obj-C on iPhone, Java for Android).
You'll be better off writing two different codebases in this case (in two different languages). Word of advice: don't write your Java code like it's C++, or your C++ code like it's Java. I worked at a company a number of years ago who had a product they "ported" from Java to C++, and they didn't write the C++ code like it was C++, and it caused all sorts of problems, not to mention being hard to read.
Writing a shared code base is really practical in this situation. There is some overhead to setting up and keeping it organized, but the major benefits are these 1) reduce the amount of code by sharing common functionality 2) Sharing bug fixes to the common code base. I'm currently aware of two routes that I'm considering for a project - use the native c/c++ (gains in speed at the expense of losing garbage collection and setting targets per processor) or use monodroid/monotouch which provide c# bindings for each os's platform functionality (I'm uncertain of how mature this is.)
If I was writing a game using 3d I'd definitely use approach #1.
I posted this same answer to a similar question but I think it's relevant so...
I use BatteryTech for my platform-abstraction stuff and my project structure looks like this:
On my PC:
gamename - contains just the common code
gamename-android - holds mostly BatteryTech's android-specific code and Android config, builders point to gamename project for common code
gamename-win32 - Just for building out to Windows, uses code from gamename project
On my Mac:
gamename - contains just the common code
gamename-ios - The iPhone/iPad build, imports common code
gamename-osx - The OSX native build. imports common code.
And I use SVN to share between my PC and Mac. My only real problems are when I add classes to the common codebase in Windows and then update on the mac to pull them down from SVN. XCode doesn't have a way to automatically add them to the project without scripts, so I have to pull them in manually each time, which is a pain but isn't the end of the world.
All of this stuff comes with BatteryTech so it's easy to figure out once you get it.
Besides using C/C++ share so lib.
If to develop cross-platform apps like game, suggest use mono-based framework like Unity3D.
Else if to develop business apps which require native UI and want to share business logic code cross mobile platforms, I suggest use Lua embedded engine as client business logic center.
The client UI is still native and get best UI performance. i.e Java on Android and ObjectC on iOS etc.
The logic is shared with same Lua scripts for all platform.
So the Lua layer is similar as client services (compare to server side services).
-- Anderson Mao, 2013-03-28
Though I don't use these myself as most of the stuff I write won't port well, I would recommend using something like Appcelerator or Red Foundry to build basic applications that can then be created natively on either platform. In these cases, you're not writing objective-c or java, you use some kind of intermediary. Note that if you move outside the box they've confined you to, you'll need to write your own code closer to the metal.
Is there anyway to load an objective c script at runtime, and run it against the classes/methods/objects/functions in the current iPhone app?
MAJOR NOTE: The major reason I'd like to do this is to allow me to rapidly prototype an application, and then, after I'm done a major prototyping phase, take the scripts I was writing and compile them at build time instead. I don't ever plan on shipping an app with an objective c interpreter in it.
The reason i ask is that I've been playing around with iPhone wax, a lua interpreter that can be embedded in an iPhone app, and it works very nicely, in the sense that any object/method/function that's publically available in your Objective C code is automatically bridged, and available in lua.
This allows you to rapidly prototype applications by simply making the core of your app be lua files that are in the users documents directory. Just reload the app, and you can test out changes to your lua files without needing to rebuild the app in XCode - a big time saver!
But, with Apples recent 3.1.3 SDK stuff, it got me thinking that the safest approach for doing this type of rapid prototypeing would be if you could use Objective C as the interpreted code... That way, worst case scenario, you could just compile it into your app before your release instead. I have heard that the lua source can be compiled to byte code, and linked in at build time, but I think the ultimate safe thing would be if the scripted source was in objective c, not lua. That way your source is always in objective c, regardless.
This leads me to wondering (i've searched, but come up with nothing) if there are any examples on how to embed an Objective C Interpreter in an iPhone app? This would allow you to rapidly prototype your app against the current classes that are built into your binary, and, when your about to deploy your app, instead of running the classes through the in app interpreter, you compile them in instead.
With the iPad and OS 4, bluetooth and virtual keyboards can work with iPhones and iPads... That's going to make this type of rapid prototyping something much more useful, at least for dev time. If you have an interpreter built into your app and have it on your iPad, for example, you can code against the interpreter while on the road, without XCode. And to me, the most useful way to get the source back to an "apple approved" state would be if the scripts were Objective C.
Objective-C is really just C with a runtime and some syntactic sugar. It's an inherently compiled language (I don't think there are any production-ready interpreters for C, although I might be wrong).
Xcode used to have a feature called ZeroLink to speed up compile time, but removed it in Xcode 3 because it caused too many bugs.
It's not exactly impossible, but it wouldn't be easy enough to be worth it. Objective-C isn't normally an interpreted language. This isn't insurmountable — interpreted vs. compiled is just an implementation choice in most cases. For example, Ruby is traditionally considered an interpreted scripting language, but MacRuby compiles it down to code just like Objective-C produces. So it would be possible to write an interpreter for Objective-C, but nobody has done this. You would have to write it yourself.
Also, the rules forbid interpreters other than Apple's Javascript interpreter. So far this hasn't been enforced on anyone, but if you're trying to be a very straight arrow, interpreted code is unfortunately out as well.
Well, there's a couple worthwhile points to bring up:
Why interpret Objective-C code when you can compile it? I understand the "rapid prototyping" idea, but part of the reason to do that in, e.g., Lua, is because Lua is a much terser language than Objective-C. I don't know if interpreting Objective-C will have as much of a bonus.
If you want to have plugins or dynamically-loadable modules in your app, you can always compile them as a separate bundle and load them, using NSBundle or a similar mechanism.
All that said, I don't know of any Objective-C interpreters. You'd likely have to write your own. I'm not sure if it would violate Apple's guidelines or not: it'd still be Objective-C code, but I thought they had rules against interpreted code, too. (I suppose they never envisioned a hypothetical scenario in which Objective-C was interpreted, though.)
There is a basic Objective-C interpreter:
Check out the posting:
Is there an Objective-C Interpreter for the Mac?
Also:
http://forrst.com/posts/Beginnings_of_a_Objective_C_Interpreter-Tdl
Ch is a commercial C/C++ interpreter. It's made by a company called SoftIntegration.
Not on IPhone, but on Simulator, you can do this with
Dynamic Code Injection Tool
http://dyci.github.com/
There's also another tool, that works a little different way, but allows same functionality
http://injectionforxcode.com/
You should take a look at cycript. You can hook into apps, replace methods on the fly, change variables, you-name-it. It's an hybrid language between Objective-C and JavaScript.
You'll need to jailbreak your iDevice to install it.
Take a look at the documentation for objc_msgSend() and other parts of the Objective-C Runtime Reference. You can essentially parse text and send it to the runtime.
I have a set of functionality (classes) that I would like to share with an application I'm building for the iPhone and for the Blackberry (Java). Does anyone have any best practices on doing this?
This is not going to be possible as far as I understand your question - the binary format for the iPhone and Java are not compatible - and even for a native library on a blackberry device.
This is not like building for OS X where you can use Java unfornately the iPhone doesn't support Java.
The best idea is probably to build you library in Objective-C and then port it to Java which is an easier transition than going the other way. If you programme for Objective-C and make sure you code has no memory leaks - then the changes are not so complex.
If you keep the structure of your classes the same then you should find maintenance much simpler - fix a bug in the Java and you should find it easy to check for the same bug in the ObjC methods etc.
Hope this helps - sorry that it is not all good news.
As Grouchal mentioned - you are not going to be able to share any physical components of your application between the two platforms. However you should be able to share the logical design of your application if you carefully separate it into highly decoupled layers. This is still a big win because the logical application design probably accounts for a large part of your development effort.
You could aim to wrap the sections of the platform specific APIs (iPhone SDK etc.) that you use with your own interfaces. In doing so you are effectively hiding the platform specific libraries and making your design and code easier to manage when dealing with differences in the platforms.
With this in place you can write your core application code so that it appears very similar on either platform - even though they are written in different languages. I find Java and Objective-C to be very similar conceptually (at least at the level at which I use it) and would expect to be able to achieve parity with at least the following:
An almost identical set of Java and Objective-C classes with the same names and responsibilities
Java/Objective-C classes with similarly named methods
Java/Objective-C methods with the same responsibilities and logical implementations
This alone will make the application easier to understand across platforms. Of course the code will always look very different at the edges - i.e when you start dealing with the view, threading, networking etc. However, these concerns will be handled by your API wrappers which once developed should have fairly static interfaces.
You might also stand to benefit if you later developer further applications that need to be delivered to both platforms as you might find that you can reuse or extend your API wrappers.
If you are writing a client-server type application you should also try and keep as much logic on your server as possible. Keep the amount of extra business logic on the device to a minimum. The more you can just treat the device as a view layer the less porting you'll have to do over all.
Aside from that, following the same naming conventions and package structure across all the projects helps greatly, especially for your framework code.
The UI API's and usability paradigms for BlackBerry and iPhone are so different that it won't be possible in most cases to directly port this kind of logic between apps. The biggest mistake one could make (in my opinion) is to try and transplant a user experience designed for one mobile platform on to another. The way people interact with BlackBerrys vs iPhones is very different so be prepared to revamp your user experience for each mobile platform you want to deploy on.
Hope this is helpful.
It is possible to write C++ code that works in both a BB10 Native app and an iOS app.
XCode would need to see the C++ files as ObjectiveCPP code.
I am currently working on such a task in my spare time. I have not yet completed it enough to either show or know if it is truly possible, but I haven't run in to any road-blocks yet.
You will need to be disciplined to write good cross-platform code designed w/ abstractions for platform-specific features.
My general pattern is that I have "class Foo" to do cross platform stuff, and a "class FooPlatform" to do platform specific stuff.
Class "Foo" can call class "FooPlatform" which abstracts out anything platform specific.
The raw cross-platform code is itself not compile-able on its own.
Separate BB10 and XCode projects are created in their respective IDEs.
Each project implements a thin (few [dozen] line) "class FooPlatform" and references the raw cross-platform code.
When I get something working that I can show I will post again here...
Is there a general procedure for programming extensibility capability into your code?
I am wondering what the general procedure is for adding extension-type capability to a system you are writing so that functionality can be extended through some kind of plugin API rather than having to modify the core code of a system.
Do such things tend to be dependent on the language the system was written in, or is there a general method for allowing for this?
I've used event-based APIs for plugins in the past. You can insert hooks for plugins by dispatching events and providing access to the application state.
For example, if you were writing a blogging application, you might want to raise an event just before a new post is saved to the database, and provide the post HTML to the plugin to alter as needed.
This is generally something that you'll have to expose yourself, so yes, it will be dependent on the language your system is written in (though often it's possible to write wrappers for other languages as well).
If, for example, you had a program written in C, for Windows, plugins would be written for your program as DLLs. At runtime, you would manually load these DLLs, and expose some interface to them. For example, the DLLs might expose a gimme_the_interface() function which could accept a structure filled with function pointers. These function pointers would allow the DLL to make calls, register callbacks, etc.
If you were in C++, you would use the DLL system, except you would probably pass an object pointer instead of a struct, and the object would implement an interface which provided functionality (accomplishing the same thing as the struct, but less ugly). For Java, you would load class files on-demand instead of DLLs, but the basic idea would be the same.
In all cases, you'll need to define a standard interface between your code and the plugins, so that you can initialize the plugins, and so the plugins can interact with you.
P.S. If you'd like to see a good example of a C++ plugin system, check out the foobar2000 SDK. I haven't used it in quite a while, but it used to be really well done. I assume it still is.
I'm tempted to point you to the Design Patterns book for this generic question :p
Seriously, I think the answer is no. You can't write extensible code by default, it will be both hard to write/extend and awfully inefficient (Mozilla started with the idea of being very extensible, used XPCOM everywhere, and now they realized it was a mistake and started to remove it where it doesn't make sense).
what makes sense to do is to identify the pieces of your system that can be meaningfully extended and support a proper API for these cases (e.g. language support plug-ins in an editor). You'd use the relevant patterns, but the specific implementation depends on your platform/language choice.
IMO, it also helps to use a dynamic language - makes it possible to tweak the core code at run time (when absolutely necessary). I appreciated that Mozilla's extensibility works that way when writing Firefox extensions.
I think there are two aspects to your question:
The design of the system to be extendable (the design patterns, inversion of control and other architectural aspects) (http://www.martinfowler.com/articles/injection.html). And, at least to me, yes these patterns/techniques are platform/language independent and can be seen as a "general procedure".
Now, their implementation is language and platform dependend (for example in C/C++ you have the dynamic library stuff, etc.)
Several 'frameworks' have been developed to give you a programming environment that provides you pluggability/extensibility but as some other people mention, don't get too crazy making everything pluggable.
In the Java world a good specification to look is OSGi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSGi) with several implementations the best one IMHO being Equinox (http://www.eclipse.org/equinox/)
Find out what minimum requrements you want to put on a plugin writer. Then make one or more Interfaces that the writer must implement for your code to know when and where to execute the code.
Make an API the writer can use to access some of the functionality in your code.
You could also make a base class the writer must inherit. This will make wiring up the API easier. Then use some kind of reflection to scan a directory, and load the classes you find that matches your requirements.
Some people also make a scripting language for their system, or implements an interpreter for a subset of an existing language. This is also a possible route to go.
Bottom line is: When you get the code to load, only your imagination should be able to stop you.
Good luck.
If you are using a compiled language such as C or C++, it may be a good idea to look at plugin support via scripting languages. Both Python and Lua are excellent languages that are used to script a large number of applications (Civ4 and blender use Python, Supreme Commander uses Lua, etc).
If you are using C++, check out the boost python library. Otherwise, python ships with headers that can be used in C, and does a fairly good job documenting the C/python API. The documentation seemed less complete for Lua, but I may not have been looking hard enough. Either way, you can offer a fairly solid scripting platform without a terrible amount of work. It still isn't trivial, but it provides you with a very good base to work from.