Over the last 10 days, I've been reading "Programming in Scala" and writing some Scala code.
As you can see in my GitHub Scala playground, I am starting to really like this language - it is as fast as OCaml (thanks to JVM's HotSpot technology), protects me from my typos (and bugs!) with its strong and static type system, and best of all: enterprise-wise, it doesn't live in a remote "island" (like Haskell and OCaml) ... because it has the huge ecosystem of the JVM.
My only problem so far:
Even though I've figured out how to develop my Scala code under VIM with sbt-quickfix, or under Emacs with Ensime (and thus have autocompletion and error navigation), I have so far failed to find a way to debug my code, with the same ease that I do for Python:
bash$ python -m pdb ./someCode.py
All the entries Google points to, are basically saying: "use this IDE that I really like..."
There are reasons however - no point in enumerating them, you either know them or you don't - that people like me prefer (a) programmable editors and (b) a standalone debugger, available outside their editor.
If you are one of the few like-minded people that dislike IDEs and happen to use Scala, I'd be really interested to know how you debug - in fact I'd be interested to hear your entire workflow.
Mine, so far is:
Add the sbt-quickfix to my SBT's project/ folder (just look at my code in this GitHub repos)
Spawn sbt in a terminal, and run ~compile so that it automatically builds when I change something in my sources
VIM automatically receives errors and shows them.
When compilation is green, hit ENTER in the sbt terminal, type run
etc
Ensime is even better, allowing auto-completion as well:
sbt gen-ensime
Spawn emacs editing one of my .scala files, and M-x ensime
Use ensime-typecheck-all (mapped to F7 in my dotfiles) and when all is OK...
ensime-sbt-do-run
Here's to hoping I am not alone - and that someone out there will help me with standalone debugging, too... the last challenge before I fully embrace Scala :-)
Turns out ensime has a debugging mode, which I somehow missed. Paired with Emacs/evil, I've spent the last couple of days inside Emacs and Scala - and it all works perfectly... autocompletion, spawning sbt in a buffer when I want to run, and debugging.
My only remaining problem is about working with Ensime from inside screen-ed sessions, which is my usual modus operandi (over SSH connections). The markers of Ensime debugger's current line and breakpoint set are placed on the left fringe - which works fine in graphics mode Emacs, but isn't visible in text-mode Emacs. I've opened a ticket and the guys there apparently have a plan for a solution.
I am a college student that has fallen in love with Emacs. I have used IDEs in the past, and although features like Intellisense made the switch to Emacs very hard, I now think that Emacs is much more powerful, and features like Intellisense can be pretty closely matched by various modes depending on language (and I am not referring to M-/). I am happily writing Elisp code for everything that I need that isn't provided by modes or by Emacs itself and I love the way that it adapts and molds to my needs.
However, I do think that its main disadvantage is the fact that it has a pretty steep learning curve and that most new programmers will not even begin to learn it out of many common misconceptions.
So, I want to know the opinions of young people (or any person who didn't start using Emacs before there were IDEs) that are Emacs users. Just to get some reassurance that Emacs is not dead within our Eclipse-loving generation =). (Opinions of users of any other highly extensible editor like Jedit are also welcome)
My "highly extensible editor" of choice is vim. Started using vi 10 years ago, at age 17, and I haven't really looked back. I like to stay away from my mouse as much as possible.
I rarely work in compiled languages these days, so the only thing I feel like I'm missing from an IDE is syntax-completion. Constantly switching to a browser to look up the order of arguments to various PHP functions gets a bit tedious.
PS: I don't want to start a vi/Emacs war here. I suspect that Emacs and vi[m] users have more in common with each other than either group has with IDErs.
I'm 62 and I've been using emacs for 21 years. I am capable of using vim in a pinch, but I really prefer emacs.
I used to use TECO a long time ago (in the 1970's) and I liked that one too.
First off, why do you care what other people think? It is clear that
Emacs has a vibrant community, as there are lots of extensions and
lots of people working on the core. There is plenty of support to be
had for it.
If you are "worried" that other editors are better, then you should
try those editors and make the decision yourself. Only you can know
what you like.
That said, I am young (23) and use Emacs. I have used it for almost
15 years. I have tried other editors, including Vim, Eclipse,
Netbeans, and Textmate. None of those editors work as well as Emacs
as far as I'm concerned, so I feel I made the right choice. I can't,
however, tell you which choice to make. You will have to figure it
out for yourself.
It is important to note that I am pretty "invested" in Emacs. I
maintain a lot of extensions, and have spent a lot of time
understanding the Emacs core... so if I switch editors, I am throwing
away a lot of time and experience. This could theoretically cloud my
judgment, but I don't think it does. Textmate works like Emacs, but
has fewer features. (I try not to use my mouse, so the eyecandy and
OS X integration don't buy me much.) Netbeans and Eclipse are nice
for managing Java projects, but on the rare occasion that I have to do
Java, I still find Emacs easier to use. I even find that writing Ant
files myself gets me closer to "where I want to be" than relying on
Eclipse's auto-builds. That leaves Vim, which is certainly
featureful, but is still a "lesser" Emacs. Emacs has all the features
of Vim -- if you want modal editing, you can just invoke Viper. The
only reason to use Vim is that you have already learned Vim, and you
can't stand the keybinding and editing model differences between Vim
and Viper. (No, Viper is not a Vim clone. It's Emacs with modal
editing.)
Anyway, JMHO. I think Emacs will serve you well throughout your
programming career. (Or any career that involves text. Emacs is
great for writing books... and email.)
When i was young i heard this:
A good hacker must be expert in 4 editors and 4 languages.
And have taken it to heart since then....
I routinely use vi(m), (x)emacs, eclipse , sed/awk/perl ( yeah .. they are text editors ).
IMHO, mastering a range of tools is essential. One should subject his brain to move
out of comfort zone every once in a while.
I now found it amazing that i have hundreds of key combinations at my fingertip , and rarely type key sequence of one into other.
I'm 21 and started using Emacs at 15, only moving away for Textmate/E in recent years. I personally can't stand IDEs, feeling they get in the way far more than they help. Give me a good straight-up text editor any day.
I'm 19, started using emacs last year, and I'm liking it. Even though I don't know how to use its "advanced" features yet, I'm comfortable with the fact that they exist and I could learn them when needed.
In my college, there shouldn't be much more than 5 students using Emacs or Vi, though.
Fear not, young programmer, and take courage from this Editor or IDE analysis. Powerful editors like Emacs will be around as long as there are language mavens. And IDE's will continue to serve the tool mavens. And each camp will continue to be amazed at how [un]productive the other is. ;-)
Well, I started using Emacs in college, and I'm only 30, so I think I count as part of the "Eclipse-loving generation".
I don't use it every day, but Emacs is certainly near the top of my tools list. (And much higher than Eclipse, I can tell you that.)
The first proper editor I used was Brief and then a number of IDE based ones before someone convinced me to try emacs (on Windows no less). I made the decision then that I was going to learn that one editor well and when I needed it to do something different I'd learn how to do it.
The real benefit of choosing one editor and sticking to it is consistency. Whatever language or task you're doing, if you're in your favourite editor, everything is easily remembered. Added to that the extensibility makes things possible that are often not on the slick IDEs.
Of course the downside is that your emacs session is a well crafted environment. If I don't have my .emacs loaded up it can seem like a foreign environment. Things work almost but not quite like I'm used to. Fortunately with DVCS systems my perfect environment is a git clone away.
I'm a university student age 19, but I started learning Emacs a good 2-3 years ago. I tried vi(m) for a bit, but I couldn't stand the modal editing model.
Prior to my introduction to Emacs, I was using Gedit and nano to do all my coding.
If you go to most grad schools, you will find your share of UNIX hackers who stick with emacs, so it's definitely there.
I'm 28 and switched from vim to emacs a month or so ago. I learnt a bit of emacs while learning lisp. I switched from vim because having compiler / debugger / shell integration made a lot of sense to me and I like the idea of the extensibility / customization.
I've got a few die-hard eclipse / intellij people I work with that are young and are rubbing their chins while thinking about making the switch. The buffer philosophy was almost enough to sell one person who was sick of tabs in IDEs.
It's not so much about age I don't think - those that are considering emacs are the ones that are forward thinking enough to realize that is has powerful enough features / ideas that the learning curve is / might be worth it.
I'm 22 year old emacs user and I cry whenever I have to leave it to do something on other IDEs.
I'm 21 and I use vim. It's a real step up from the other programming editors I had been using, and I would recommend anyone else in computer science courses to try it out.
I'm 23 and emacs was taught in our Operating Systems course as the "C editor you should use." I used it for the course, but have moved on to other IDEs that better suit my workflow and day to day development environment.
Edit Because my original post was not altogether helpful.
I used emacs through a command terminal inside of PuTTY and that is my extent of using it. I didn't mind it as an editor and got good enough with the shortcuts to be quite productive. I haven't really explored the emacs editor anymore than that because I was already using eclipse and really liked it.
Now, I use eclipse day to day because it is an extensible language that I have to develop with Java, ActionScript, JavaScript, PHP, CSS, HTML, and even Scheme. I also have a custom eclipse extension that I'm perfecting that helps me be more productive in my full time niche (WordPress development). Eclipse provides FTP and SSH services and I've been familiar with the interface for longer than any other IDE, and that is why I use it.
I was born in 1970*, but came (back) to programming about 6 years ago, starting with Visual Basic 6 (ay-yi-yi!). A co-worker would hard-code all his Perl in a text-editor (INCLUDING forms), which boggled my mind, but did not entrance. Slowly, I started using humble MS notepad for... notes while on the phone, open tasks throughout the day, etc. And slowly, I started wanting more. A number of other factors (desire to work closer to regexes, old desire to learn LISP [I came of age in the 80s, if you know what I mean]) lead me through a couple of editors, and finally to Emacs.
Now, I get frustrated in IDEs that I can't key-navigate and tweak to my heart's content.
*okay, so I may no longer be a "young people" -- but when I started using Emacs I was in my early-mid 30s, and identified as such.
I'm 26 and I'm using VIM for several years now for C++ development. All my team mates use either VIM or Emacs (50% vs 50%, we have great flames from time to time), our lead is also using VIM. It's a best choice for us on Solaris.
However for large MS APIs like DirectX I use VS... its sometimes pain to switch but it's much easier to tackle this kind of monster :)
I barely step out of my VIM these days and on those applications where I find myself forced into an IDE, I quickly remember why. I have become so accustomed to the VIM hotkeys for selection, replacement, folding, etc. that my productivity gets floored.
Like others, I rarely work in compiled languages anymore, so I've setup shortcuts that run my Perl/PHP paste the interpreters to find syntax errors. In some cases, I've even set up VIM to run available unit tests through the same interface. It's also very easy to alt-tab back to a browser (preferably on another monitor) and hit "Control-R" for a refresh, all without touching the mouse.
I'm 21 and I use vim for now 3 or 4 years...
I once tried emacs when one of my teacher told me it was better than Vim...but I prefered my workflow with vim...
I tried to use emacs last week because I had problem indenting html files...But my teamate lost me when he started talking about key combination or something like that. My guess is that vim or emacs are two great editor...It's better than most of the IDE I know.
Thumbs up to everyone.
I'm 20 and I started using Emacs last summer when I have to code c++ on linux, and Emacs was the only editor I can stand on openSUSE (Kate is horrible, horrible! - especially my work machine is kinda slow). Then I was won over; there is really nothing better in the world for a mouse-hater. Now I use emacs (yeah on Windows...) for all kind of thing including doing file operations with dired and playing tetris ;)
That being said I still code c# in Visual Studio (occasion switch to emacs for major refactoring and boilerplate work, which is much^100 easier in emacs). IF emacs has intellisense (that works) then I'll dump the text editor in VS studio (I will still use the GUI designer though, nothing replaces that); as of now, having to look up classes is too much a pain for me to code c#.NET in emacs.
I'm a 19 year old college student who uses Emacs - I started using it about a year ago and haven't looked back.
I've only been using emacs for about 10 years now. At one point I took a decided turn to learn it (and vi) to be more comfortable editing directly on servers.
When it comes to writing code quickly and with little red flags when the syntax is wrong in realtime, using an IDE is like wearing gloves when handling thorny plants: you don't have to be as careful. (It's also like using a word processor with automatic spelling fixes and grammar checks compared to using, well, emacs for writing.)
So, I mostly use Eclipse/Xcode/other-required-IDE except when it comes to quick changes, direct edits on a server, or other remote/fast editing scenarios.
What I haven't done is looked around to see if there are any good modes for emacs that allow it to provide such quick editing help as other IDEs (though, the default modes do help quite a bit, anyway -- this isn't raw text editing, really).
I also had a pleasant surprise recently when I realized much of the Mac OS UI can use emacs commands in a similar way to how unix command line editing can be done with emacs commands. How cool is that?
I am under 30 and I use emacs.
Currently, I has to interface with computer through software speech recognition.
Nothing beats emacs because various commands are easy to program for recognition and create aliases.
now, it took me some time to get comfortable with programming in elisp, but I think benefit was worth it. I have tried using eclipse, but there is something about emacs, particularly extensibility, that it's hard to replace.
Mostly I use gedit. Simple and sweet. I'm 20 and always hated IDEs (I got my start with Netbeans in high school).
Emacs is all right; it doesn't quite do everything I like jEdit to do, but I'm not interested in spending time writing macros and plug-ins for my editor - I like getting stuff done instead. If I needed my editor to do something that different, I'd get another editor or install someone else's plugin.
I've used jEdit, Visual Studio, notepad++, TextWrangler. I abhor VIM.
Ironic....
I use emacs full-time now. Several months after the above answer I was doing a lot of remote logins into Linux and nano got too constricting. And, yes, I've spent time writing macros and plug-ins for emacs. jEdit is still pretty good, but emacs is quite better. Still don't use vim(yet?).
I'm 17 and I started using Emacs when I was 14, and VIM when I was 15. I use Emacs for SLIME and ERC mostly now, preferring GVim for editing files and such.
Each time I approached a respected guru type about Emacs, they would warn me away. Most of them didn't like it, either. I took that as a clue.
OTOH, I was interested in TECO a long time ago (now you know my age), and I hear Emacs grew out of that. So, I still wonder...
You can have my copies of Eclipse, NetBeans and Visual Studio when you pry them from my cold, dead hands!
I tried to learn how to use Emacs when I started my degree, but I eventually gave up. Part of that is because I have a poor memory, and its keyboard shortcuts are unconventional compared to what I am use to.
I do almost all my coding in TextMate (which has been dubbed the Emacs of Macs). If I'm in a command-line environment then ViM does the trick.
I code J2me in Windows, where my company doesn't impose me on certain IDE. And guess what, I return to my Old friend, Emacs...
I am 31 now, and I first learning emacs ca 23. But, the situation makes me change IDE alots : Netbeans, VS.NET, Eclipse, etc.
You know, Emacs still beat other, in some perspective :)
Has anyone managed to get Vim integrated into Eclipse painlessly? I just want to use Vim for the editor while retaining the general Eclipse interface. I have tried using Eclim plugin but the editor seemed to crash more often than work (the site said that the editor replacement functionality is still beta).
On the flip side, is there any IDE which matches Eclipse's functionality—mainly the integration with SVN, ant, etc.—and is also able to use Vim?
I mostly use eclipse for SAS SCL, Java and Javascript programming and find the eclipse editor too "mouse-y".
I'd also like, in a perfect world, to use vimdiff as a diff viewer for SVN (we use TortoiseSVN) while checking for diffs or conflicts during merge etc. I admit I havent spent a lot of time trying to get these things to work. I feel guilty about spending too much time on potential wild-goose-chases while my other team members are working away at their code, perfectly content with all that Eclipse has to offer.
Edit: Just found this while desperately browsing around: Vim plugin. Any experience using this? From the claims on the site, it sounds perfect.
I've been using Vrapper for about 2 months and it works great. It is simple to install, and makes life much easier.
It doesn't integrate Vim with Eclipse, it just emulates Vim's behaviour so you don't need to have Vim installed.
EDIT:
I have been experiencing errors while refactoring methods in Eclipse (only when Vrapper was installed) so I stopped using it.
Now I'm using ViPlugin (very similar to vrapper). It works great (especially since version 2.0) and I recommend it, but it is not free (but cheap and has a trial version)
Edit
As the new post mentioned, if we always use the rename dialog to rename, it can be a work around for Varpper.
Preferences > Java > and uncheck "Rename in editor without dialog"
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/vrapper/ticket/96
The consensus seems summarized in that Wanted: VIM in Eclipse article.
No decent Vi plugin exists for eclipse, except viplugin which does not offer macro mechanisms.
Whereas on the NetBeans side... jvi does a killing job ;)
WOW, this is the one!
http://vrapper.sourceforge.net/home/
It just came out a few months ago, and seems much better than the other alternatives...and it is open source.
I use Viable, which is a new plugin for Eclipse providing Vi emulation. It is very similar to vrapper, but it doesn't have the same problem as vrapper with refactoring (as cysiek10 described.)
It's got some pretty cool features which none of the other Vim emulators in Eclipse seem to have (though jvi for NetBeans has a few of these) such as:
Visual block mode
External filters and commands
Command history
Window splits (love having this one!)
It is pay; however, you can try the full version for free just like viPlugin.
I never had much luck with vim integration into any IDE, be it Eclipse, Visual Studio, NetBeans, or sth else. Instead when stuck using an IDE, I just make the IDE launch a custom program: which passes the file onto vim using the client/server feature.
I.e. vim --servername SomeName --remote-{choice of how to open it: splits or tabs} {extra args like filename and +line#}
I just tried Eclim http://eclim.org/ and found it really good. I can still edit inside Vim, and enjoy most of the benefits of the eclipse IDE inside Vim (such as better omni completions).
The best thing about Eclim is we are still using the original Vim, so I can enjoy all the existing benefits (my own functions, macros, etc.) while having the extra convenience provided by an IDE.
http://vimplugin.org, which I found over the weekend was the closest I could come to a nice integration. Unfortunately when I opened more than 2 files in my IDE, it made my entire workstation unresponsive. And I didn't even use the "new process" option for the editor.
So bottom line it does seem that there is no decent integration available yet. Although with some it's close. I'm rooting for vimplugin to stabilize and I'll also some time (when I'm not eating up my employer's time like now) play some more with hte plugin to see if I can make it usable.
I tried Eclim and didn't like it at all. I ended using this plugin called "viPlugin," which actually works well enough to warrant using it every day. Here is the site for viPlugin:
http://www.viplugin.com
The big downside of this plugin is that it's not free. I paid for it, and I think it's worth it.
...is there any IDE which matches Eclipse's functionality -- mainly the integration with SVN, ant, etc. -- and is also able to use Vim?
IntelliJ IDEA has a very good VI plugin, but I didn't like it, although the plugin did it's work.
My problem was I have formed habits to use IDEA and those were harder and my experiment didn't it through. So I uninstall the plugin, and learned idea shortcuts instead.
But, is not free :(
Vrapper does the trick.
After installing Vrapper you need to remove CTRL+W key binding in Eclipse settings. Or else it keeps closing the editor when you actually meant Backspace.
It also comes with "surround" and split window plugins. Be sure to install those.
This is not 100% Vim, though. And nothing is 100% Vim except for Vim (doh!). You will find some commands missing (or you may not, depending on how "vimy" you are). But vrapper has :vim command, which opens up Vim editor with the current file in the buffer and places your cursor in the exact location in the file. This way you can continue editing from where you left off. When you're done in Vim just close the editor, and you return to your eclipse editor.
I hope this was helpful.
I have been doing some java development lately and have started using Eclipse. For the most part, I think it is great, but being a C/C++ guy used to doing all of his editing in vim, I find myself needlessly hitting the Esc key over and over.
It would be really nice if I got all the nice features of Eclipse, but still could do basic editing the same way I can in vim. Anyone know of any Eclipse pluggins that would help with this?
Vrapper:
an Eclipse plugin which acts as a wrapper for Eclipse text editors to provide a Vim-like input scheme for moving around and editing text.
Unlike other plugins which embed Vim in Eclipse, Vrapper imitates the behaviour of Vim while still using whatever editor you have opened in the workbench. The goal is to have the comfort and ease which comes with the different modes, complex commands and count/operator/motion combinations which are the key features behind editing with Vim, while preserving the powerful features of the different Eclipse text editors, like code generation and refactoring...
There is this plugin that costs $20+
http://satokar.com/viplugin/
I use it and it works great, you've got basic vi movement commands and a set of others.
Here is an open source, free plugin but i've never been able to get it working (i'm on a mac).
http://sourceforge.net/projects/vimplugin/
You can also go the other way and get eclipse code completion inside vim.
http://eclim.sourceforge.net/
You basically run an instance of Eclipse and you will be working inside vim. They just released a version compatible with Eclipse 3.4.
New plugin I've started using
https://marketplace.eclipse.org/content/viable-vim-eclipse
Viable has pretty much what you are looking for along with some extra features which none of the other plugins for eclipse seem to have, like some support for visual block mode, command line history, window splitting, and piping external commands.
It is pay ($15.00 CAD) but free to tree with all the features. I personally like it better than the other solutions.