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A job came in to me that's built with CodeCharge - had a look at it and seems to be a pretty basic point-and-click site builder tool. Has anyone got any in-depth experience with it? My first reaction is one of horror and to just rebuild the code in Rails or PHP but I thought I'd ask the question first, maybe i'm missing something...
I'm currently evaluating it for use in quickly producing a back-office environment, and it seems a very comfortable way of getting an interface up and running quickly.
Once the code is generated it is simple, but easily modified for any special needs you have.
In short it is a very good tool (though it would seem that Iron Speed Designer is much better though much more expensive) for what it does - fast prototyping and almost no coding approach to developing a web application. In my opinion, not much different than a Ruby On Rails application in terms of functionality, and, I can generate the code in any language I want.
You have to realize, it is all about speed - some quality is thrown in, but it is a very generic of quality - this is NOT a custom application, mind you, the resulting code you get here might not be pretty but it is a few level higher than your average script kiddie code.
I'm seriously considering this tool for creating back-office applications for sites I develop - a fast and easy solution instead of mucking around in tables of data and useless and repetitive SQL code.
Codecharge is a powerful tool that I have used for over 10 years to build very large content management systems, CRMs and many other management type tools.
Its far from simple once you get into it, and honestly when you use a tool like Codecharge to cleanly generate your user interfaces, you end up with a healthier application that can last many many years.
For instance, I have three clients that have been running Codecharge created portals for over 10 years and they always comment how bug free they have been.
There is a learning curve to learning CodeCharge but it will also teach you what entire applications should have in place and it will please the executives every time because they can get functionality within hours or days rather than weeks or never.
Development teams will often not like it though, because they would rather hand code everything or use the latest and greatest approach to development.
If you were going to start building web sites as a consulting business on the side -- keeping your day job -- and you also had a toddler and a wife, what frameworks/tools would you pick to save you typing?
Any language.
I'm looking for a productivity superstar stack that won't tie my hands too much when I have to update the site 6 months later, or "evolve" the data model once in production.
It needs to allow me to say "yes" to the client: community features, CMS, security, moderation, AJAX, ...
I would suggest Django. Super simple to get something up and running really quick. You are using Python which has a large library to go with it. For me Ruby on Rails would be a close second.
I'd probably look at DotNetNuke. Its easy to set up (a lot of hosts will do it for you) and easy to use and put together a custom site that business's will be able to maintain in the future.
Its fairly easy to create custom modules that are specific to a business and hundreds of modules for sale (or free) that can be integrated into DNN for special uses.
Take a look at Microsoft's Sharepoint server if you'd like a pre-made framework with many options for plugging in your own code. Sharepoint is kind of a world unto itself but it is a very powerful environment.
Update: I'm surprised to have been voted down on this one. Keep in mind that the questioner specifically requested frameworks that included a CMS. Sharepoint meets this criteria - unlike straight .NET or other web development frameworks.
If you are going to vote the entry down, I think you owe it to the person who asked the question to explain why you don't think he should not even explore it as an option. You could be right - collective wisdom is what voting on SO is all about. But without an explanation, we don't know why you think you are right.
My answers are going to revolve around the .NET stack.
Use Master pages and CSS templates. This makes it so much easier to pop in a new look and feel for your customer.
For sure I'd include the Dynamic Data framework in the .NET world.
Hosting might become an issue for your customer. Questions around managing email addresses, procedures on how to quickly update the website to include the new contact phone number (different for each customer, I'd assume) Consider getting a reseller account on your favorite webhost, and dole out webhosting accounts as appropriate. There are lots of issues around this point. It may turn out to be a nice source of recurring revenue.
Build yourself a few patterns including a database wrapper which would handle all your data calls (i.e. a dll which wraps all your data calls, sets up your ADO.NET objects, runs your sproc calls, and picks up the connstring from app.config or something similar.)
This goes a long way to maintainability as well.
I would recomend going with anything MVC in a language you can undertand! Theres a couple of CMS's in python, php and ruby using that design and well... that allows you to be ready for combat for Ajax and expanding anything very fast.
This is definitely not a question that can be answered.
I prefer asp.net webforms because I think it allows for extremely rapid web app development, but I am sure you will receive recommendations for:
asp.net mvc
Ruby on Rails
PHP and some framework
Python and some framework such as Django
I believe PHP has the most pre-built apps that you can use, though asp.net also has the things you are looking for.
All of these platforms and frameworks can do what you want.
Choose between Rails and Django. They both have different strengths. I like Rails better in general, but Django's admin interface can save you a lot of time when you need it.
There's another factor to take into consideration here: what are you the most familiar with? I believe that some studies have found upwards of a 30% loss of productivity when trying to learn a new language/framework.
Sometimes, there's nothing wrong with just sticking to what you know. But if you're interested in what languages/frameworks to learn, I'll refer you to the other posts because the above was the only thing I really have to add.
I recommend looking into Grails. It uses Groovy which is similiar to Java (so if you know this already you're good to go). Groovy runs on the JVM so you can still use all the great libraries already available for Java. Yet, since it's a dynamic language with a lot of the similar bells and whistles like Ruby you can use closures and that kind of neat stuff when you need/want to. And you're not slowed down by Java's traditonal slow compile-deploy-test development cycle.
Grails is already setup with Hibernate and Spring. You can create CRUD application in practically no-time (pretty much like Rails applications), and at the same time drill down and be able to control every little details since it's built on such proven and well-supported technologies. In addition there's literally hundreds of plugins available that helps you easily set up things like mailing lists, security, AJAX components and so on.
Otherwise, if you want to set up a community site and don't want to code a single line you could always check out ning.com.
I need to create a internal website and can't figure out if we should be writing our own, or using an existing framework.
Most of the website will essentially be a front end to a database. We need to have a number of people enter data into forms. We then want to be able to show different views of all this data -- including running small queries (e.g. how many resources do we have with attribute 'X'). As is usually the case with this, we will want to tweak the UI on a regular basis.
There actual data design is not a simple 1:1 mapping of resource to entry. For example, we might track several attributes for one item as the "base set of data" for that item. Then we could have several additional sets of data.
Imagine a recipe application. You might have a recipse for a starter. This could then be referenced by several other recipes that need that same information.
I feel like this is best suited for a general framework (Ruby on Rails, Django, etc), but I wonder if it might not be good for a "traditional" CMS platform like Drupal? I specifically mention Drupal since the people that would develop this have the most knowledge using php and MySql.
I usually lean towards wanting to use an existing platform, but am interested in other people's thoughts. To give you an idea of scope, I would imagine if we wrote this from scratch we are probably talking about 3-5 weeks of development.
Would you recommend writing our own, or using an existing framework? If you would suggest using something that exists what would you recommend?
Would you consider this to be best suited for a straight framework or a straight CMS?
Thanks!
It's possible that Drupal will be a good solution for you, though you'll probably need a few key additional modules like the "Content Creation Kit" (CCK) and "Views".
Unlike other web CMS systems (WordPress, Exponent, phpNuke), Drupal treats your entries as a "pool" of content, from which you pull various subsets for different areas of your site.
There is a lot of documentation for Drupal (almost too much), the biggest problem is finding the piece that's relevant to what you're trying to achieve. Diving on to one of the interactive IRC channels can be a good idea, as the community is quite helpful and is almost always willing to give you a pointer in the right direction.
The power, flexiblity and capability of Drupal is both its biggest strength and weakness - I know it took me a bit of effort to get my head around key concepts, and I'm far from being a Drupal Expert.
One last comment: Having written my own CMS from scratch, which I abandoned in favour of Drupal, I'd suggest your 3-5 week estimate is likely on the light side.
Stay away from Drupal for any site that requires customized functionality. I recently used Drupal for a website at work, and it was VERY difficult to figure out how to get it to do what I wanted it to do. There is a lot of documentation out there, but all of it is unhelpful -- it answers very specific questions about specific issues but does not provide any context as to how you would approach building the site as a whole. If you're a programmer, using a more general framework will probably work better, as CMS's are designed for a specific kind of site, and if you want your site to have non-standard functionality you are going to be fighting the system instead of working with it. If your developers are most experienced in PHP, try one of the PHP frameworks that mimics the architecture of Rails -- e.g. cakePHP or CodeIgniter.
CMSes usually make sense when you have a broad and potentially expanding array of different content types and modes you need to handle. Drupal has literally dozens. Given than you mentioned RoR, it sounds like what you need is more of a MVC style framework. Maybe similar to the sort of thing stackoverflow was built with. .NET an issue for you?
If you are really limited to 3-5 weeks, however, I think a Rails-based strategy makes sense so go with RoR or CodeIgniter
If Drupal can do what you need easily I would say go with Drupal. I don't know much about Drupal though.
Otherwise, what you describe sounds like a data driven web app or more like a reporting app. It sounds like you might have some very specific needs or that users might want very specific needs in the future. That is something hard to get from premade software since you have no idea what users are going to request. Since I'm a programmer I would probably want to build it myself.
Funny you should ask... I just came across this in SD Time's Linkpalooza this afternoon:
Ten free powerful content management systems…
There are at least 4 more mentioned in the comments to this post.
It seems to make little sense to develop a new one with so many from which to choose!
BTW, this is neither a recommendation nor endorsement of any particular CMS.
Treat Drupal as a framework. Core modules + CCK + Views is a good start to build on.
If you're doing something that you might want to expose to other applications, consider the Services module. A lot of interesting things have been done with flex frontends connected to drupal running services with amfphp.
Is there anyone who has used or looked into using Jitterbit as well as BizTalk? If so, what are some pros and cons of each, and which one did you go with as your final solution?
Specifically, I'm looking for SAP integration, but any input would be appreciated.
Like Rob I have not heard about JitterBit until reading your question (thanks!), I have, however, been working with BizTalk, almost exclusively, for the past 9 years; for that reason I wasn't sure I should be responding, but as Rob did, and nobody else has, I figured it's worth a couple of cents....
From the little reading I've done it seems to me that JitterBit, apart from being an open source, which has it's pros and cons, is trying to lower the entry barrier by offering a relative simple solution with the promise of rapid development and drag-n-drop approach "with no custom code".
I'll take their promise at face value, as I know nothing about it, although I have my doubts, so let's assume developing with JitterBit is really easy, there's one thing I can clearly state - developing with BizTalk isn't.
But, and that's a bit but in my view, developing with BizTalk is somewhat difficult not because Microsoft did a bad job at it, on the contrary - developing with BizTalk is somewhat difficult because Microsoft wanted to create a tool that could realistically allow enterprises to solve their BPM and integration needs well, and, in my experience, these problems are almost never simple, so Microsoft had built a server that has many capabilities, is very strong and very flexible, at the cost of complexity.
So, while any experienced technical sales guy can give you a demo of an integration scenario that is very simple, and is developed in a few minutes using a lot of drag and drop and configuration, even in BizTalk, but is this a realistic enterprise-level solution? was it a realistic scenario that was demonstrated? from my experience the answer is almost exclusively no; the problems tend to be complex, and their require a more robust solution.
So, I guess the bottom line would be - if you're looking for a one off solution, and open source is something you guys work with - JitterBit is definitely worth looking at, seeing if it's capable of helping out and has, indeed, a short learning curve (it would be important to look at maintenance, monitoring, trouble shooting, instance management etc)
If, however, you believe, as is often the case, that your solution would grow to become a BPM/integration platform in your organisation, and you need something more robust - I would put my money on BizTalk being a better candidate.
I've done a fair bit of integration with SAP, starting with the old SAP DCOM connector. More recently I've been involved in the selection of an integration platform to serve in an Enterprise Service Bus pattern.
We did web service samples to connect to SAP on a number of platforms, including BizTalk, Mule, Netweaver, Webmethods and Tibco. Webmethods won out based on licensing and capability, though BizTalk and Netweaver both had very high marks.
Jitterbit was not part of the evaluation - in fact I had to look it up to be sure I understood your question.
If your goal is just to be able to call an RFC, the .NET SAP connector works well.
If your goal is to expose a web service to wrapper a process in SAP, then BizTalk is good, but I recommend you see if your organization already has netweaver licensed as there are many web services available directly from SAP with no coding.
My recommendation is to avoid Jitterbug and Mule for the enterprise for now - unless Open Source is actually a popular thing at your place of employment. Netweaver and BizTalk are very robust, polished products.
If you are looking for something you can ship easily, then Jitterbug may make more sense. Though generally I'd recommend you define it as a web service call, and look to your customers technology stack for the most appropriate integration technique.
More context of what you are looking to achieve will enable a more accurate answer.
Michael,
We use Jitterbit in our organization and we've been very successful with it in various projects. Our SAP projects use XI and Jitterbit has dramatically simplified the ability to integrate web service interfaces with the various protocols it supports.
In addition to an excellent price (and we now subscribe to Jitterbit for support) we realize great value out of the support service. If we have any questions during our implementations they seem to provide all the subject matter expertise included in the support cost, so we're quite self sufficient.
We still have many other integration solutions in our company including VB and Java programs; it's a mess, but we don't believe that any one platform will meet all of our different divisions' needs. We have been using open source, specifically Linux and Apache for many years now, although IBM and Microsoft are also prevalent here.
We went with Jitterbit as it supports protocols needed to integrate any modern system and with SOA / Web Services being our stated direction Jitterbit was a great fit for what we needed.
Given that Jitterbit is Open Source, I would encourage you to download it and try it out.
I will say it simply, I have been using biztalk and was one of the people that helped validate the 2006 training course. Biztalk by far one the best server applications for Business process that is available today. You do also have to factor in the price point is ridiculously low compared to what else is out there.
On an average, how much time does it take to become proficient in development using JD Edwards? Is it easy to learn? Are there any prerequisites?
I'm assuming you're interested on learning the development skills of JD Edwards, not the business processes that the system actually implements.
There are 2 versions of JDE. One runs over AS/400 plataforms, DB2 database and uses RPG (language) to implement reports and functionalities. I'm not acquainted with that version (did very few interface jobs and they were all complicated due to DB2's differences from my usual flavours of databases - Oracle or SQL Server).
The other version is EnterpriseOne (formerly OneWorld). I started developing for this version in 2000 and kept active until 2006. It's very easy to achieve the basic level of development and then you get to face the oddities and known issues from the system and how to dodge them and that's when you become experienced.
All development tools are internal to JDE. There's a table designer, a query designer (with a grid interface that resembles any visual query designer), an interactive programs designer (forms), a report designer and a business rules designer.
If you have experience with any RDA tool (like Visual Studio, for instance) and development for databases, you will be able to use this knowledge to ease the learning curve. In my case, I was a SQL programmer and I had a lot of experience with Visual Basic and Microsoft Access. I was able to use that experience by understanding the underlying concepts of the system and adapting for them. It took me about 25 hours of training with a more seasoned programmer to get me ready to at least do basic stuff on real customers. This amount of hours varies from person to person, obviously.
However, I can say that I only started to feel that I was understanding the tools and the process after 6 months of daily work on my first customer. After about 12-18 months, I was ashamed of the first applications that I wrote, so I actually went back and rewrote some on my own time... :-)
The thing about JDE is: there's very little coding/functionality on the database side (because it used to be flexible on databases choices). All the forms and reports are written inside the actual system by way of the designers.
All "coding" is done by way of a simple (and sometimes dumb) point-and-click interface. For instance: you don't write an assignment statement, like var = value. You select the Assignment button, then you select the variable in a list, then you select the value in a list (or enter the value, if it's fixed).
All the rules behind forms, reports and business rules are created that way. One exception: when you're writing a business rule, you can opt between using this approach (called Named Event Rule - NER) or using the C language (called Business Function).
If you choose NER, after you finish, the system actually converts that to C.
There are debug functionalities for forms, reports and business rules.
This is basic development. There are other tools and functionalities that are usually assigned to developers and so you will be able to do a lot more. I've worked a lot with interfaces, interoperability, workflow and more.
Also noteworthy is that JDE has an internal tool for managing objects, version control, checkins, checkouts and transfering objects from one environment to another to complete the development cicle.
As a developer, the more you learn about the business processes being implemented, the better. You get to learn the inside (code, specs) and outside (process) for the functionalities and this helps you as a developer and helps you in your career (and paygrade).
Now, my only caveat regarding my answer: as I've mentioned, it's been a while since I left JD Edwards development. As far as I know, things are pretty much the same, but I can't say for sure.
Best advice I can offer: go to www.jdelist.com for specific questions and help with issues. Be polite, try to ask questions about specific matters instead of general questions (I mean: if you ask those guys how long does it take to learn JDE, they will probably ignore you, but if you ask stuff like "in your opinion, what are the most complex tasks for a JDE developer to master?" you will probably get some pretty good answers).
Hope it helps and wish you good luck with JDE. After the initial bump, I enjoyed my ride on it quite a lot.
You can start with the JD Edwards EntepriseOne Developer guide to learn about object management work bench, design tools for table, form and reports and API for Business Functions.
https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E53430_01/nav/development.htm
As far as I can tell, it depends on the version of JDE. There are a lot of different components, and different versions (from what I can tell.) For example, a sister company of ours is running JDE over terminals to an AS/400. It's all "Green Screen" text-based screens, typing three letter commands at a command prompt, and using the cursor to move around the screen.
I haven't tried to learn it in depth yet, but trying to learn enough to do basic support has taken me several months at a few hours a week. Think of JDE as a baby version of SAP, that gives you an idea of the scope of your question.
I taught some classes about JDEdwards EnterpriseOne Development.
One of my students who never programmed before took about 320 hours of trainning to be able to do some developments on JDEdwards. Nowadays he's a coworker and a good programmer.
His 320 hours of trainning was:
During 5 months I taught on saturdays, 8 hours
Then he got another trainning which was 4 hours week and 8 hours on saturdays for 5 weeks
As I've said after all this, he has being able to perform all tasks of a JDEdwards Developer.
And my advice to who is going to study this is to have a good knowledge of SQL and have programmed before in any compiled language, it helps a lot.