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I've been on this issue for probably a good two months now and really haven't found a stable solution so I thought I'd just try to ask. I have an existing site already at http://keyjaycompound.com that runs off a CMS that I designed. While it was good at the time, I've now outgrown it and looking at it now, looks sloppy XD.
So at first I started redoing the CMS when I thought and read that there are so many CMS solutions available, why spin my wheels? It seemed more logical to get a third party solution that does the mondain tasks like article CRUD and user management where I'd primarily worry about the addons.
So I searched and tried many solutions that I thought would suite my PHP development needs. As my testing base, I needed to see how well my current site would transfer over and how much hassle would ensue. While CMS's like Drupal, E107, and others were great....on paper, neither seem to suite my need. They were either too bloated, lacking in documentation or community support, seemly comprised of large hassle for simple tasks, or just downright confusing >_<.
So now the road has put me at Frameworks now in which I'm currently trying to learn Code Igniter. Now my issue becomes security! One of the advantages of CMS systems like Drupal or Joomla is that they have (and constantly are) field tested for security holes. Something a lone modest experienced developer like myself would probably never find. However what some have told me is that the fact that the CMS would be designed by me does create somewhat of a layer of security considering it's not common to the public as much as Drupal or Wordpress.
So with that here are my questions. In consideration of time and practicality:
how do pro's actually do something like this; select a content management system for their project?
Do they start with frameworks and build out, adjusting to security problems along the way?
Do they use a particular CMS solution so they dont worry as much about common security holes?
Maybe I should start with a framework like Codeigniter and growing with it as my security and user management needs change?
Thanks guys. I'd really like to finally stick with a solution to learn so I can finally get back to developing.
This might be too old to answer, but I'm shocked nobody has bothered to answer the question! I'm in the same situation and saw this.
I started out with a CMS, but after a security attack that wiped a project site clean (and the CMS forum was completely clueless) I picked up Codeigniter. Some projects later and recreating my own CMS (twice), I settled with wordpress for small-medium projects (from personal websites to online news/magazine types). As you put it, I've outgrown my own CMS for these type of projects.
Answers (in the order you asked them):
1) It depends mostly on what it is you are doing. If its something that can be deployed with open software (with a little patience learning), you could be better off with that while making sure they're updated all the time. But if you're doing something way different from all these I'm afraid you're pretty much stuck with a custom solution, which you could accelerate with frameworks.
2,3,4) With frameworks (for starters) sticking to the security guidelines of the framework in question helps a lot, while proofing the usual suspects (form validation, session hijacking, injection, etc) . I ran my first CMS through a certified hacker and he said it was rock solid (despite how paranoid I was about security while developing). Stick to the blog of the framework for security updates (they do happen)
For CI though, a major item you have to consider thoroughly would be the user management. CI AFAIK didn't come with one at the time and picking one with security in mind made me realize how important it was.
What seems to be looking like a good idea is finding a CMS working within Codeigniter that I can extend with ease. I don't know yet if this is the same as a standalone CMS that was built on codeigniter, but tackling security problems for me would amount to running tests while being as alert as I am as I go
Sorry for the long talk. Hope this helps
I’m looking at using Expression Engine for a new site I’m developing does anyone have any experience of using EE, good or bad?
I’ve looked at some other CMS but found they are quite big and although you get everything, I like EE as it looks like you can streamline it to exactly what you want your users to use?
The main feature I need is to not be taken away from the HTML and CSS and not feel restricted on what I design or relying on plugins to achieve certain aspects of the site.
The ability to create snippets of code and include them into a main template or page is really appealing. I looked at other CMS but they seem to focus more on creating pages where I would like to make up a page from varouis custom created snippets?
I come from a asp and MS SQL background rather than a php and my SQL do you think that would cause me any problems?
I've used ExpressionEngine before and found it to be extremely easy to get your head around compared to other CMS products such as Drupal. Plus, you have a lot more freedom with your designs.
One of the best resources I found on the web, is a site called train-ee.com by Mike Boyink. This is the first tutorial I did on ExpressionEngine (when I was first learning) and he goes into great detail while keeping it extremely simple:
http://www.train-ee.com/courseware/free-tutorials/category/building-a-small-business-site/
Hope this helps.
Dan
Jemes,
I have been building websites on EE for a few years now and it is hands-down the most flexible and powerful system to work with. You simply can build sites faster and customize it to fit clients needs better. As a company we were so happy with it that we build our own add-on for e-commerce (BrilliantRetail).
The community (#eecms on twitter) is fantastic and there are meetups, EECI conferences (Oct 2011), Devotee EE addons and a responsive parent company (#ellislab)constantly improving the platform.
Tony
If you have a few bucks to spend (48$), and if you are more of a visual learner, you might want to have a look at Ryan Ierlan's screencasts on Mijingo:
http://mijingo.com/products/screencasts/learning-expressionengine-2-complete-series/
I come from a asp and MS SQL background rather than a php and my SQL do you think that would >cause me any problems?
I have neither background and it didn´t caused my any problems. If you don´t want to build your own plugins you won´t need to know PHP. I can´t program PHP, but never felt the necessity to learn it.
I started with EE 0.95 backthan and never looked for any other CMS, because I could build all my sites with EE. I like the concept of haveing a comercial product that is build upon an open source foundation (code igniter) coupled with a very active and friendly community.
I am working on a project which requires facilities like aricles, forums, ratings, polls,communities etc..
how to i proceed to make it?
what are its essential parts?
suggestions for the database design.
thankyou.
I know this isn't your question, but don't reinvent the wheel.
You will fall foul of a lot of problems.
Use something like Drupal instead.
Just take a look at some source code from existing CMSs such as Wordpress or SMF and you'll get a good idea.
Yeah-- roll with wordpress or drupal if php, dotnetnuke or orchard for .net. Bare minimum, you could use their code as a template to make yours.
CMSs are complex systems--don't waste your time
There are so many existing and good and open source (if you need the source) CMS systems already. Why reinvent the wheel?
I would recommend going with one that exists but if you must you could even download an open source CMS to help give you an idea of what you need.
I would suggest that you adopt a php framework, like Symfony, kohana/CodeIgniter CakePHP etc. Building a custom cms for yourself or a client is not a bad idea. Hacking the 'usual suspects' that do 80% of what you need and leave a cluttered backend interface might work for some clients, but if you can offer a truly custom experience, your clients would prefer that, given that security is not an issue and you have well functioning CMS.
When it comes to the rudimentary tasks involved in database management/scaffolding, user permissions, forms handling, etc. do try out one of the frameworks, they get you coding the important stuff sooner. Play around with any one of these (I find Symfony is pretty powerful, and Kohana/CI are easy to set up, haven't used cakePhp) and once you get comfortable with one of these, have a look at some of the CMSes that were done using these frameworks
I've built a couple of lightweight CMS's from scratch several years ago in PHP, when the Nukes were the main ones about, and Mambo was becoming popular, however nowadays there are many great choices to choose from.
If your needs are very simple and you really want to build it yourself, than I would recommend building one with a framework such as Kohana which has much of the core plumbing in place, database access, security, permissions etc.
You will need a WYSIWYG such as TinyMCE, (f)CkEditor, or Telerik RadEditor.
Database structure could be centered around document type structure, take a look at the db structure for ModX which is an excellent CMS to buid customized sites off, however even looking at how they structure content is useful.
Design a backend U.I for the admin area of your site, keep it simple, and separate the cms admin area from the frontend code.
Determine the scalability issues of your cms, catering to hundreds(of thousands??!?) of users, what type of roles will be required, permissions for editing content etc.
How would the CMS be extended, with plugins, modules
Determine the templating system, whether to roll your own or use an existing one such as smarty.
These are just some of the initial decisions to make, it's actually quite easy to build a simple CMS though as others have suggested its generally much better to use an existing open source one, ModX, Drupal, etc..
If you were going to start building web sites as a consulting business on the side -- keeping your day job -- and you also had a toddler and a wife, what frameworks/tools would you pick to save you typing?
Any language.
I'm looking for a productivity superstar stack that won't tie my hands too much when I have to update the site 6 months later, or "evolve" the data model once in production.
It needs to allow me to say "yes" to the client: community features, CMS, security, moderation, AJAX, ...
I would suggest Django. Super simple to get something up and running really quick. You are using Python which has a large library to go with it. For me Ruby on Rails would be a close second.
I'd probably look at DotNetNuke. Its easy to set up (a lot of hosts will do it for you) and easy to use and put together a custom site that business's will be able to maintain in the future.
Its fairly easy to create custom modules that are specific to a business and hundreds of modules for sale (or free) that can be integrated into DNN for special uses.
Take a look at Microsoft's Sharepoint server if you'd like a pre-made framework with many options for plugging in your own code. Sharepoint is kind of a world unto itself but it is a very powerful environment.
Update: I'm surprised to have been voted down on this one. Keep in mind that the questioner specifically requested frameworks that included a CMS. Sharepoint meets this criteria - unlike straight .NET or other web development frameworks.
If you are going to vote the entry down, I think you owe it to the person who asked the question to explain why you don't think he should not even explore it as an option. You could be right - collective wisdom is what voting on SO is all about. But without an explanation, we don't know why you think you are right.
My answers are going to revolve around the .NET stack.
Use Master pages and CSS templates. This makes it so much easier to pop in a new look and feel for your customer.
For sure I'd include the Dynamic Data framework in the .NET world.
Hosting might become an issue for your customer. Questions around managing email addresses, procedures on how to quickly update the website to include the new contact phone number (different for each customer, I'd assume) Consider getting a reseller account on your favorite webhost, and dole out webhosting accounts as appropriate. There are lots of issues around this point. It may turn out to be a nice source of recurring revenue.
Build yourself a few patterns including a database wrapper which would handle all your data calls (i.e. a dll which wraps all your data calls, sets up your ADO.NET objects, runs your sproc calls, and picks up the connstring from app.config or something similar.)
This goes a long way to maintainability as well.
I would recomend going with anything MVC in a language you can undertand! Theres a couple of CMS's in python, php and ruby using that design and well... that allows you to be ready for combat for Ajax and expanding anything very fast.
This is definitely not a question that can be answered.
I prefer asp.net webforms because I think it allows for extremely rapid web app development, but I am sure you will receive recommendations for:
asp.net mvc
Ruby on Rails
PHP and some framework
Python and some framework such as Django
I believe PHP has the most pre-built apps that you can use, though asp.net also has the things you are looking for.
All of these platforms and frameworks can do what you want.
Choose between Rails and Django. They both have different strengths. I like Rails better in general, but Django's admin interface can save you a lot of time when you need it.
There's another factor to take into consideration here: what are you the most familiar with? I believe that some studies have found upwards of a 30% loss of productivity when trying to learn a new language/framework.
Sometimes, there's nothing wrong with just sticking to what you know. But if you're interested in what languages/frameworks to learn, I'll refer you to the other posts because the above was the only thing I really have to add.
I recommend looking into Grails. It uses Groovy which is similiar to Java (so if you know this already you're good to go). Groovy runs on the JVM so you can still use all the great libraries already available for Java. Yet, since it's a dynamic language with a lot of the similar bells and whistles like Ruby you can use closures and that kind of neat stuff when you need/want to. And you're not slowed down by Java's traditonal slow compile-deploy-test development cycle.
Grails is already setup with Hibernate and Spring. You can create CRUD application in practically no-time (pretty much like Rails applications), and at the same time drill down and be able to control every little details since it's built on such proven and well-supported technologies. In addition there's literally hundreds of plugins available that helps you easily set up things like mailing lists, security, AJAX components and so on.
Otherwise, if you want to set up a community site and don't want to code a single line you could always check out ning.com.
I need to create a internal website and can't figure out if we should be writing our own, or using an existing framework.
Most of the website will essentially be a front end to a database. We need to have a number of people enter data into forms. We then want to be able to show different views of all this data -- including running small queries (e.g. how many resources do we have with attribute 'X'). As is usually the case with this, we will want to tweak the UI on a regular basis.
There actual data design is not a simple 1:1 mapping of resource to entry. For example, we might track several attributes for one item as the "base set of data" for that item. Then we could have several additional sets of data.
Imagine a recipe application. You might have a recipse for a starter. This could then be referenced by several other recipes that need that same information.
I feel like this is best suited for a general framework (Ruby on Rails, Django, etc), but I wonder if it might not be good for a "traditional" CMS platform like Drupal? I specifically mention Drupal since the people that would develop this have the most knowledge using php and MySql.
I usually lean towards wanting to use an existing platform, but am interested in other people's thoughts. To give you an idea of scope, I would imagine if we wrote this from scratch we are probably talking about 3-5 weeks of development.
Would you recommend writing our own, or using an existing framework? If you would suggest using something that exists what would you recommend?
Would you consider this to be best suited for a straight framework or a straight CMS?
Thanks!
It's possible that Drupal will be a good solution for you, though you'll probably need a few key additional modules like the "Content Creation Kit" (CCK) and "Views".
Unlike other web CMS systems (WordPress, Exponent, phpNuke), Drupal treats your entries as a "pool" of content, from which you pull various subsets for different areas of your site.
There is a lot of documentation for Drupal (almost too much), the biggest problem is finding the piece that's relevant to what you're trying to achieve. Diving on to one of the interactive IRC channels can be a good idea, as the community is quite helpful and is almost always willing to give you a pointer in the right direction.
The power, flexiblity and capability of Drupal is both its biggest strength and weakness - I know it took me a bit of effort to get my head around key concepts, and I'm far from being a Drupal Expert.
One last comment: Having written my own CMS from scratch, which I abandoned in favour of Drupal, I'd suggest your 3-5 week estimate is likely on the light side.
Stay away from Drupal for any site that requires customized functionality. I recently used Drupal for a website at work, and it was VERY difficult to figure out how to get it to do what I wanted it to do. There is a lot of documentation out there, but all of it is unhelpful -- it answers very specific questions about specific issues but does not provide any context as to how you would approach building the site as a whole. If you're a programmer, using a more general framework will probably work better, as CMS's are designed for a specific kind of site, and if you want your site to have non-standard functionality you are going to be fighting the system instead of working with it. If your developers are most experienced in PHP, try one of the PHP frameworks that mimics the architecture of Rails -- e.g. cakePHP or CodeIgniter.
CMSes usually make sense when you have a broad and potentially expanding array of different content types and modes you need to handle. Drupal has literally dozens. Given than you mentioned RoR, it sounds like what you need is more of a MVC style framework. Maybe similar to the sort of thing stackoverflow was built with. .NET an issue for you?
If you are really limited to 3-5 weeks, however, I think a Rails-based strategy makes sense so go with RoR or CodeIgniter
If Drupal can do what you need easily I would say go with Drupal. I don't know much about Drupal though.
Otherwise, what you describe sounds like a data driven web app or more like a reporting app. It sounds like you might have some very specific needs or that users might want very specific needs in the future. That is something hard to get from premade software since you have no idea what users are going to request. Since I'm a programmer I would probably want to build it myself.
Funny you should ask... I just came across this in SD Time's Linkpalooza this afternoon:
Ten free powerful content management systems…
There are at least 4 more mentioned in the comments to this post.
It seems to make little sense to develop a new one with so many from which to choose!
BTW, this is neither a recommendation nor endorsement of any particular CMS.
Treat Drupal as a framework. Core modules + CCK + Views is a good start to build on.
If you're doing something that you might want to expose to other applications, consider the Services module. A lot of interesting things have been done with flex frontends connected to drupal running services with amfphp.