So by reading the reasons why facebook choose OCaml to create Reason, I couldn't stop noting that Scala met all the requirements too.
I'm not biased whatsoever, I know Scala, but I'm not a die hard scala advocate. I just like a nice type system, so in this point I'm finding really hard to choose between those two for my next project. So what are the real trade offs here?
Reason react can do per file compilation so it’s easy to slip into an existing project. Scala.js allows you to tap into scala libs and the scala ecosystem. If you only focus on web it’s probably best to stick with what Facebook offers. I have computations that i do and for that Scala and non-ocaml tools are more helpful. Since you already know scala, you can use the reason-react model by using a library I put together at https://github.com/aappddeevv/scalajs-react.
Related
I'm curious what's the "best" way to program RIAs with Scala.
I'm new to Scala and would simply like to know where to start learning. It seems obvious that for web-apps Lift is the perfect choice to be combined with Scala. However from what I've seen so far Lift is not really providing the key to great visuals. Certainly there are hundreds of possible frameworks due to the compability with Java but that's not very helpful.
What would you recommend ?
What is a common set-up ?
Among others I found cappuccino, a very impressive framework.
http://www.scala-lang.org/node/7281
It just seems like Cappuccino is designed for a language named Objective-J. That doesn't sound like great compability to me. Yet somehow they can work together.
http://frothy.liftweb.net/
Well, if you are new to Scala you should probably try Play, because learning a web framework and a new programming language is hard.
Play has a big community and seems to be quite user-friendly (pressing F5 in your browser reloads your code and displays any errors which have occured).
Normally any Java web framework can also be used in Scala, but Play seems to be pretty Scala-friendly.
There are quite a few Scala-specific web frameworks too, but I don't know enough to tell you more about them.
Lift is an powerful and impressive framework, but certainly nothing for beginners.
(I assume "new to Scala" doesn't mean "I programmed in Haskell, ML and Scheme for decades").
Of course it all depends. Personally, I have had no problem starting with Lift even though I’d only used Scala in the REPL before and just for some toying around to get to know the syntax.
It certainly helps a lot if you already know how to use collections in a functional way without explicit loops, so you can read and understand other people’s code more easily. But basically, I’d say it is doable learning both Lift and Scala at the same time even without a background in functional languages. It’s just the collections thing you’ll have to get used to and if you happen to know Ruby (or a language with list comprehensions) you’ll easily understand it.
The Frothy integration has not yet been updated to the newest version of Lift and I don’t know of any site which actually uses it but maybe this is a thing to ask on the Lift mailing list. In any case, I think Frothy only helps you connecting a Lift setup with some Cappuccino frontend but does not provide many wrappers to the Objective-J code, so you’ll still have to write code in Objective-J.
At that point you can ask yourself: Why not write the whole thing with Cappuccino and decide afterwards if Lift integration is actually needed.
Considering Lift alone: You certainly can use Lift with some UI Kit like JQuery UI for the visuals. Lift has many advanced possibilities which make it possible to build complicated web applications but you’ll have to care about the wiring for the visuals yourself.
(And arguably, a stateful, non-MVC (‘view first’) framework like Lift might be better suited for a rich internet application than a pure MVC framework…)
Hio there Scala folks, I'm actually writing my master thesis and I have to implement a security typed language in Scala. So this means I have to add annotations to specify the special permissions levels for the variables and other programming constructs in Scala. The idea to add this comes from Jif (a real security typed language http://www.cs.cornell.edu/jif/) and FlowCaml (http://www.normalesup.org/~simonet/soft/flowcaml/). I still have to check how this languages add their security extensions.
I talked to my advisor and he suggested three possibilities how I can implement this feature in Scala:
source-to-source compiler (I don't think this is the best solution to write the things from the scratch because I will be busy with the parser and semantic and out of own experience I know that I don't have quite enough time to work on the main stuff)
type-checker plugin (I haven't wrote a plugin for compiler and think this just won't work on further versions of Scala because the compiler is still under development)
build a library in Scala (syntax are here simply free, so I can easily build something like this in a language I want => think this is like inventing a DSL and I believe that this is the best solution)
If you have another idea how to implement please let me know and if you have pros and cons for the methods mentioned above please let me know. I'm convinced that I will learn after this project of to program with pleasure in Scala (I'm familiar with Java and Ruby).
Greetings
Matthias Guenther
This is definitely a job for a compiler plugin: writing a plugin which allows annotations to further refine the possible subtype relationships is fairly straightforward, at least in simple cases.
You can be reasonably confident that the compiler plugin API will remain stable for the lifetime of a masters thesis, and you should investigate scala.tools.nsc.symtab.AnnotationCheckers and google for example plugins which implement compile time checks for (non-)nullability (ie. T #NonNull <: T, but not T <: T#NonNull) which is structurally similar to the simplest non-trivial security typed scheme.
Wow, this is quite a sizable project!
I think the answer to your question depends on if you're looking for a sound language addition or if you just want something that may be circumvented by the programmer but still might be helpful. Since you mention Jif and FlowCaml I assume you want to go the sound way and provide guarantees for your language. Then I don't think there is much option but create your own language constructs on top of Scala and provide a new frontend for those.
I very much doubt that you can implement security as a library in the style of Peng Li and Steve Zdancewic or Alejandro Russo. The reason is that Scala can have side-effects everywhere and that pretty much ruins any security guarantees that you can try to enforce.
Good luck!
we are considering Scala for a new Project within our company. We have some Junior Programmers with only PHP knowledge, and we are in doubt that they can handle Scala. What are your opinions? Some say: "Scala is a complicated beast!", some say: "It's easy once you got it." Maybe someone has real-world experience?
"My coworkers will not understand Scala" is simultaneously overstating its difficulty and insulting your coworkers.
Scala is not that difficult. It's just another programming language. Any trouble that junior programmers have with Scala is going to be more or less the same trouble they would have with any other language.
Your coworkers are smart. Of course, I don't know them, but it's a pretty safe bet unless your company is the kind of organisation that hires stupid people, in which case, you have bigger problems.
That said, at my company we have some core products developed in Scala, and we don't find that people have any more trouble with it than Java. The code is generally more clear and concise, easier to generalise and reuse, etc.
I guess Scala could be used as a "beginners" language. Even though there are tricky ideas behind it, you dont have to use/explain them in the beginning. If you explain pure OO with Scala, I would say it is straight forward and easily understandable. As Scala reduces a lot of code overhead from other languages it might even be easier to learn concepts with Scala than with Java/C++.
A major drawback I see with Scala as a beginner language is the lack of documentation. Don't get this wrong, the official Scala doc is very good and also the few books that are available are quite useful to get the details of the language, but those have not been written for beginners. For example in Java you find hundreds of books titled something like "Learning OO with Java" you wont find that for Scala which may be a show stopper.
As Hannes mentioned, only do new language introductions within research projects and not productive or even flagship projects. If you have some juniors, that makes the situation even better, take some internal tool, you always wanted and needed and let them create it during a research project. This is also a nice opportunity to experiment with different development-processes. And your juniors most probably like to be challenged and will deliver a good prototype and a very well proofed opinion if Scala can be used as a beginner language.
I believe that most people moving to Scala are experienced and enthusiastic coders. I'd suggest that you get in-house experience with a Scala project with your senior programmers first before forming a strategy for mentoring your junior coders. I'd also suggest that you only involve people who are eager to join in.
I would advocate it. But with the proviso that you have clear guidelines on what language features are acceptable for your team. For example, coding primarily in an imperative style (which is familiar for Java-trained people), or perhaps limiting the employment of recursion or closures.
Also plan for seniors to mentor the juniors. This may take the form of any combination of: pair programming, code reviews, info sessions, regular discussion forums, etc.
The opportunity that scala presents for vastly improved coding on the JVM is too great to pass up. When your seniors get into it I would not be surprised if they find renewed passion for development. When your juniors get into it they will be learning best practice JVM development from the start.
If you choose to go this route, perhaps they'll find easier to use the Scalate framework than a more traditional one like Lift, since it allows mixing HTML with Scala, much in the same way as PHP works.
Scala is a very 'normal' programming language. Any programmer should be able to learn this language. The people that have difficulties learning Scala mostly are experienced with imperative languages and are surprised by the functional concepts. So unexperienced programmers may learn it even faster. In my opinion should be no problem, to assign it to juniors. From a management point of view, I would assign a junior and a senior developer as a team (or more of both, depending on the size of the project).
I think it depends whats more importent for you. If you want to learn as possible about OO Programming and the standard stuff its a bad idea.
But what you really give them is a opportunity to learn something really cool and unique. Witch can be good motivation. Scala has many cool stuff in it. If you can handle Scala you can handle a lot of otherstuff as well.
Talk to the Programmers (all of them) and tell them why you wanne to use scala. Ask if the have to motivation to make and learn something not everybody can do and go the extra mile?
If the are go with it!
My initial thought would be that Scala will be too heavy for them but then I guess because Scala is an OO/Imperitave/Functional hybrid, one could introduce them to the OO/Imperative part of scala until their comfortable, but then again they will probably have bad PHP habits in Scala since scala authors mostly prefer the functional style over the imperative one.
So, it could work, but I would do it for a research project, and definately not for a flagship one.
Edit: Perhaps this should be said also: It seems that functional/OO hybrids like Scala is becoming more popular especially because of how functional languages handles parallel processing as opposed to how we know it in languages like in Java. The amount of cores found in a chip is increasing rapidly, so this is important. However, mentioning PHP, it seems that you are developing web server scripts where threading is less important. PHP doesn't even have threads.
This raises another point. Do you want to develop Scala Web applications i.e. Lift. If so then you have a doubled up learning curve which should also be considered.
Imagine that you would have picked Java and asked whether they could handle Java. If your answer is they could, then they can probably handle Scala.
Scala is only marginally more difficult due to:
No great IDE support. The support ranges from poor to good. Not necessarily an issue for a PHP programmer.
Documentation not as rich as Java
Both Java and Scala have new challenges for a PHP programmer (JVM, new libraries, compiled language, statically typed).
I don't think Scala is a complicated beast, but you do need to understand some of the syntactic sugar and design principles, which would be true of learning Java as well.
Yes, if...
Strategic decision has been made to go with Scala
Company can handle the hit (financial and time) that will come from the steep learning curve.
No, if...
No senior Java, C# or C++ programmers can be put on the project too
Can't find a Scala programmer to act as a lead
Programmers don't have the patience to learn Scala or deal with a language where Jars (libraries) are scattered all over the place, rather than in one or two neat packages like PHP.
*Note: if the junior programmers were C++, C#, or Java Software Engineers rather than PHP, then my answer would be different like, Go for it!
I would not recommend it. My experience of Scala is only from homebrew projects, but I would imagine the currently lousy IDE support, quite frequent API changes and a very flexible syntax (that allows one to hang himself and everybody else participating in the project) would cause a lot of problems in a bigger, more official project.
Give them IntelliJ and throw 'em in the deep end.
Here is a blog post I recently stumbled upon:
http://james-iry.blogspot.com/2008/07/java-is-too-academic.html
It shows that even Java can be too academic to be understood by programmers which have no experience in functional programming. On the other hand, Scala allows to write code the "imperative way", so you can avoid all the FP stuff if you do not understand it. In my opinion, Scala is much more concise than Java, so I guess a "junior programmer" should be able to handle it.
I have been working on a project and as I have just started on the webservice I found Lift has been released, so I am curious if there will be much more complication by using Lift over Jax-WS using JDK6.
I am doing this with the Eclipse IDE, but I don't know if I will get much benefit from the IDE on this project.
Lift is written in Scala, so the simple question is do you know Scala? If you don't know Scala but you do know JAX-WS, then Lift will clearly be way more work to get to a working implementation.
Scala and Lift are cool, but unless you are already comfortable with functional programming approaches, they will make your head hurt for at least 6 months. Since they are relatively new they also suffer from a lack of tooling.
You mention that you are using JAX-WS - can you do that with Lift? If you can't do it natively with Lift, can you easily integrate the standard Java libraries for this?
Depending on whether this is a personal project or work-related, your tolerance for taking technical risk can vary widely.
I've been asked to run a workshop and coding dojo soon for people to try out Scala and try to build something with it. The attendees are all going to be new to Scala, and could come from any of a number of languages (I'm presuming they can code in at least one mainstream language - I'm including syntax comparisons with Java, C#, Python and Ruby).
Part of the appeal of Scala is that it's practical - you can use it as a drop-in "power Java" (Java with less syntactical clutter, closures, immutability, FP, traits, singleton objects, nifty XML handling, type inference etc.) that still runs on the JVM (and on the .NET CLR supposedly) and doesn't require you to change build tools, server infrastructure, libraries, IDEs and so on. Most of the katas I've seen have been fun but not 'real world' - mathematical challenges like Project Euler and so on. These don't seem appropriate as we're trying to explore the use of it as a practical, real world language that people could consider using for both hacking and work, and because people aren't necessarily going to be too familiar with either the deeper parts of the Scala syntax or necessarily of the concepts behind functional programming.
So, has anyone come across any more practical, everyday katas rather than arithmetical 'problem solving' ones? Katas, that is, that can test whether the language, libraries and tools can satisfy the use cases of the actual day-to-day programming most people have to do rather than testing out. (Not that the impractical ones aren't fun, but just not appropriate for the kind of thing I've been asked to run.)
If I can't find good examples, I'm thinking that it might be useful to try and build something like a library catalogue - the event is for programmers who primarily work on building infrastructure for universities (and in education and culture - museums, galleries, schools, libraries and so on). It's a bit boring though, but it's the sort of thing that the attendees work on in their day-to-day existence. Any suggestions?
There is a creative commons licensed introductory training course with hands-on exercises here:
http://github.com/javaBin/scala-training-slides
http://github.com/javaBin/scala-training-code
The slides are in Open Office format. If you don't have this installed, you can upload them to SlideShare, which will convert them for online viewing.
Most of the programming examples in my blog are, effectively, coding dojo exercises. Particularly the matrices series, but also the puzzles and 99 beers. Now, don't disregard the matrices series as being "mathematical", because the problems I concern myself in it are related to the construction of classes in Scala, not to doing fancy algorithms. In fact, I pretty much skip over the mathematical algorithms themselves.
Now, 99 Scala Problems and pretty much everything from Project Euler are nice exercises for the functional part of Scala, but I understand that not to be your emphasis. I do recommend retronym's answer. Rosetta Code, not being functionally oriented, might have more general examples. There are many with Scala examples, of course, though you may wish to consider other tasks as well, for ideas.
There's lot of cool things to learn about Scala, but one has to be careful at beginner level. For instance, I would not speak of dependency injection (self types and the cake pattern) or of type classes (the pattern that simulates such with implicits).
Do look as well at the material on the Scala Lang site, particularly the Scala by Example document.
EDIT
I have now overseen several Scala dojos, so here's a bit of stuff I've learned from then:
Problems: they have to be fun, not-quite-easy, not-that-hard, and that has to be everyone's opinion.
We use the Dojo Puzzles site, which is in Portuguese so it won't be of use for most people here. If there's a similar site in English, I'd love to hear about it.
The way it works is you ask for a random problem, look it over and discuss to see if you'll pick it up or not, and then indicate by saying you'll use it, you'll not use it, or maybe you'll use it but you'd like to see another one. This vote gets registered and you can see how many people picked up a problem, which helps deciding whether to pick it up or not in first place.
Scala knowledge: it turns out it's not that important to introduce key concepts of Scala language beforehand, particularly if some of the participants have basic knowledge.
In my experience, setting up the testing environment with a trivial "pass" test and explaining how people should write the tests is often enough to get people started. If you feel someone is struggling to write something, give a quick explanation and get on with it.
Teaching Scala: if you do set out to teach Scala, keep lessons short and follow up with a dojo. In this case, keep a set of dojo problems that are adequate to the lesson, and, depending on how many lessons you want in one day, short.
It helps imposing artificial constraints on how one must solve a problem. Some examples of constraints I have put in practice are no classes and single-expression methods (that is, no multiple statements or val/var declarations). The point of these constraints is making it impossible for people to solve the problem in the way they are used to, which gets them to explore the language in search of alternatives.
I have the final results of three dojos done at my current job in this repository.
At the moment we are using the Randori Kata format, but without fixed time or break, and with retrospective at the end of the dojo, not at the beginning of the next. This, however, is just were we are currently at -- we have experimented many variations, and we are still evolving.
Perhaps you could have a look at the Ruby Quiz material for inspiration.
Take a look at Scala by example from Martin Odersky (creator of scala)