I wonder if in 'real life' and not just in theory, is there a max limit of the number of actors in the same app? Does it know to handle 500,000 actors in the same time? asume that I have the physical resources (cpu and memory)
Yes. The nice thing about Actors is that their lifecycle is managed. If they're not used, they are persisted and taken out of memory (garbage collected). So it's not a problem to have millions of Actors in your system.
See this link for an example, an online game with millions of players.
Provided you think ahead of the resource requirements and partitioning, SF should scale well.
Related
We’re working to take our software to Azure cloud and looking at Orleans and Service Fabric (SF) as potential frameworks. We need to:
Populate our analysis engines with lots of data (e.g., 100MB to 2GB) per engine instance.
Maintain that state, and if an engine instance goes idle for say 20 minutes or more, we’d like to unload it (i.e., and not pay for the engine instance resource).
Each engine instance will support one to several end users with a specific data set.
Each engine instance can be highly interactive generating lots of plot data near realtime. We’re maintaining state as we don’t want to pay the price to populate engine instance for each engine interaction.
An engine instance action can take a few seconds, a few minutes, to even tens of minutes. We’ll want some feedback.
Users may access an engine instance every few seconds (e.g., to steer the engine towards a result based on feedback) and will want live plot data.
Each user will want to talk to a specific engine instance.
As a user expresses interest in running a simulation (i.e., standing up an engine instance), ideally we want him to choose small/medium/large computing resource to run his engine instance (i.e., based on the problem he’s trying to solve he may want more or less computing/memory power).
We’re considering Orleans and SF but we’re having difficulty specifying architecture based on above requirements. We’ve considered:
Trying to think about an SF partition, or an Orleans silo as an ‘engine instance’ described above.
Leveraging both Orleans and SF notion of fault tolerance through replication.
Leveraging local (i.e., to partition or silo) storage to store results and maintain state (i.e., for long periods or until idle for 20 minutes).
We’ve not understood how to:
Limit a silo or a partition to a single engine instance so that we can control resourcing of the engine instance.
Keep a user’s engine instance data separate from another users engine instance data.
Direct a request from a user (e.g., through a web API) to a particular engine instance.
Does this make sense for Orleans, does it make more sense for SF? Any pointers on how to implement the above would be helpful.
When you say SF I assume you mean SF Actors right?
You can use them the way you want, but in both cases does not look as the right solution for your problem, because:
Actors are single threaded, if you plan to share the same instance with multiple clients, each one would have to wait for the previous one to finish before it start processing anything. If you need to monitor the status of a running actor, you would have to make the actor publish the updates to external subscribers.
Actor state is isolated, so you can't access the state of other actors, the way to do it is provide a method to return it, but if the actor is running a command you have to wait the completion, unless you make a separate state service to hold the processed data.
You can't limit the resources required for a actor, in service fabric you specify the resources needed for a service, but you can't do it for actors, and you can't limit the resources they use, when they hit the limit, service fabric will try to balance the resources for your, but nothing prevent the process to consume more memory than requested.
Both actor services communicates using the ask approach, so they will "block" the caller waiting for an answer, it is asynchronous but you still have to keep the caller 'waiting'. (block and wait is because there is not an idea of fire and forget like Akka that uses the Tell approach, where it delivery the message and forget.)
Based on some of your requirements, I think a containers would be a better approach. Because:
You can limit the resource consumption for each container
The data is isolated inside the container and not visible to others
But on containers you have to manage the replication and partitioning by yourself, so in this case I would recommend the best of both worlds:
Create SF services to host the shared data sets between the the users
SF Service+Actor to only store the results of users simulations.
Containers to run the simulations and send updates to actors
This is just an example, it all will depend on your requirements, architecture and how data will be isolated from each other.
My application has a set of Actors, each one doing some heavy computation, and each one executing a different business logic. At the end each actor sends the result back to the Supervisor that in turn persist the data.
My intention is to have them distribute in 3 nodes to split/balance the workload, as well as make the system high available, by allowing on of the machines "die".
There is no need to share state among the machines
How does Akka solve for this scenario?
Is it an Akka cluster that I need?
Are there any examples that fall in this domain?
To share state between instance you can use Sharding and PersistentActor.
You can play Reactive Missile Defend project to visualise what happened if node goes down.
There are nice talks on JDD2015 Sharding with Akka. From theory to production and Scala eXchange - Beat Aliens with Akka Cluster showing how to use distributed Actors (with Cluster and Sharding) and how they behave in situation of turning off one of the nodes.
I have an existing distributed computing framework built on top of MassTransit and RabbitMQ. There is essentially a manager which responds with work based on requests. Each worker will take a certain amount of items based on the physcial machine specs. The worker then sends completion messages when done. It works rather well and seems to be highly scalable since the only link is the service bus.
I recently evaluated Akka.Net in order to see if that would be a simpler system to implement the same pattern. After looking at it I was somewhat confused at what exactly it is used for. It seems that if I wanted to do something similar the manager would have to know about each worker ahead of time and directly send it work.
I believe I am missing something because that model doesn't seem to scale well.
Service buses like MassTransit are build as reliable messaging services. Ensuring the message delivery is primary concern there.
Actor frameworks also use messages, but this is the only similarity. Messaging is only a mean to achieve goal and it's not as reliable as in case of the service buses. They are more oriented on building high performance, easily distributed system topologies, centered around actors as primary unit of work. Conceptually actor is close to Active Record pattern (however this is a great simplification). They are also very lightweight. You can have millions of them living in memory of the executing machine.
When it comes to performance, Akka.NET is able to send over 30 mln messages/sec on a single VM (tested on 8 cores) - a lot more than any service bus, but the characteristics also differs significantly.
On the JVM we now that akka clusters may rise up to 2400 machines. Unfortunately we where not able to test, what the .NET implementation limits are.
You have to decide what do you really need: a messaging library, an actor framework or a combination of both.
I agree with #Horusiath answer. In addition, I'd say that in most cases you can replace a servicebus for the messaging system of an actor model like akka, but they are not in the same class.
Messaging is just one thing that Akka provides, and while it's a great feature, I wouldn't say it's the main one. When analyzing it as an alternative, you must first look at the benefits of the model itself and then look if the messaging capabilities are good enough for your use case. You can still use a dedicated external servicebus to distribute messages across different clusters and keep akka.net exchanging messages inside clusters for example.
But the point is that if you decide to use Akka.net, you won't be using it only for messaging.
I have been learning Storm and Samza in order to understand how stream processing engines work and realized that both of them are standalone applications and in order to process an event I need to add it to a queue that is also connected to stream processing engine. That means I need to add the event to a queue (which is also a standalone application, let's say Kafka), and Storm will pick the event from the queue and process it in a worker process. And If I have multiple bolts, each bolt will be processed by different worker processes. (Which is one of the things I don't really understand, I see that a company that uses more than 20 bolts in production and each event is transferred between bolts in a certain path)
However I don't really understand why I would need such complex systems. The processes involves too much IO operations (my program -> queue -> storm ->> bolts) and it makes much more harder to control and debug the them.
Instead, if I'm collecting the data from web servers, why not just use the same node for event processing? The operations will be already distributed over the nodes by load-balancers which I use for web servers. I can create executors on same JVM instances and send the events from web server to the executor asynchronously without involving any extra IO requests. I can also watch the executors in web servers and make sure that the executor processed the events (at-least-once or exactly-one processing guarantee). In this way, it will be a lot easier to manage my application and since not much IO operation is required, it will be faster compared to the other way which involves sending the data to another node over the network (which is also not reliable) and process it in that node.
Most probably I'm missing something here because I know that many companies actively uses Storm and many people I know recommend Storm or other stream processing engines for real-time event processing but I just don't understand it.
My understanding is that the goal of using a framework like Storm is to offload the heavy processing (whether cpu-bound, I/O-bound or both) from the application/web servers and keep them responsive.
Consider that each application server may have have to serve a large number of concurrent requests, not all of them having to do with stream processing. If the app server is already processing a significant load of events, then it could constitute a bottleneck for lighter requests, as the server resources (think cpu usage, memory, disk contention etc.) will already be tied to heavier processing requests.
If the actual load you need to face isn't that heavy, or if it can simply be handled by adding app server instances, then of course it doesn't make sense to complexify your architecture/topology, which could in fact slow the entire thing down. It really depends on your performance and load requirements, as well as on how much (virtual) hardware you can throw at the problem. As usual, benchmarking based on your load requirements will help make a decision of which way to go.
you are right to consider that sending data across the network will consume more time of the total processing time.
However, these frameworks (Storm, Spark, Samza, Flink) were created to process a lot of data that potentially does not fit in memory of one computer. So, if we use more than one computer to process the data we can achieve parallelism.
And, following your question about the network latency. Yes! this is a trade off to consider. The developer has to know that they are implementing programs to deploy in a parallel framework. The way that they build the application will influence how much data is transferred through the network as well.
We're looking at setting up a MSMQ system with ~8000 clients and one queue per client. On average the system needs to handle ~2000 messages daily from each client, where the message size will range from 1K to MSMQ Max size (4MB).
Is this at all possible with MSMQ?
I know I'm not providing a lot of details here, but I just want feedback on whether or not anyone has been able to run a similar setup.
Well, broadbrush answer is yes, it will scale out no problem, as its a mature product, on the go for over 10 years.
There are a number of very large implementations out there, banks mostly, like Barclays use it, for I think between 60-90k desktops, but only if it has been correctly designed, and each of your processing boxes has enough memory, and suitable network bandwidth.
As regards messaging throughput, 2k messages a day, is nothing really. I was working in the City a few years ago, where one derivatives f/x app was processing 1600 message/sec.
I can't offer you any advice without specifics, but I hope that helps.
Bob.
In theory you can do this and you would have a maintenance nightmare. Employ one/few customer facing queue(s) and deploy Content Routing and/or Competing Consumers patterns downstream.
Throughput is not an issue with your projected volumes but remember that there are fundamental disk files supporting your queues. If you deploy 8,000 queues you may risk getting disk I/O issues unless you have a RAID solution.